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submitted 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) by Wursi@lemmy.world to c/fuckcars@lemmy.world
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[-] TIN@feddit.uk 114 points 1 month ago

There's a conspiracy theory that what 15 minute cities secretly means is that you'll be confined in a sector of the city and unable to leave without a permit or something.

Why anyone would think that, no idea!

[-] CompactFlax@discuss.tchncs.de 59 points 1 month ago

Possibly because that’s actually what the fascists want.

[-] phutatorius@lemmy.zip 38 points 1 month ago

Authoritarians are poor at distinguising "is allowed to" from "is forced to." This is also why they hate gay people-- they think that if someone else is allowed to be gay, that'll mean that everyone will be compelled to.

The reality is that they fear freedom. They like the taste of boot.

[-] Natanael@infosec.pub 4 points 1 month ago

And why would a bunch of never-left-their-staters even care in the first place? They clearly don't want freedom of movement

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[-] mcv@lemmy.zip 14 points 1 month ago

Why anyone would think that, no idea!

Because that's what Republicans would do, obviously.

[-] SeductiveTortoise@piefed.social 13 points 1 month ago

In car-centric American cities however, that would be impossible. You can't just block the single street that leads out of the neighborhood!

Oh, wait.

[-] queermunist@lemmy.ml 12 points 1 month ago

Or like, why do they think this couldn't happen in a city with cars?

They can just block the roads and cars are worthless.

[-] Blackmist@feddit.uk 9 points 1 month ago

I don't think it makes any logical sense. It doesn't need to, because that's not the point.

Repeat the buzzwords (15 minute cities, WEF, replacement theory, etc) on Facebook or Twitter and the lunatic followers/bots will magically appear to follow, like and subscribe you up the social media pages.

[-] 9point6@lemmy.world 98 points 1 month ago

Oh no, imagine life being convenient

[-] phutatorius@lemmy.zip 54 points 1 month ago

It's horrible. I've had to give up my beloved 90-minute commute, and if I want something from a shop, I have to got off my lazy arse and spend a couple of minutes walking over there, instead of wasting 20 minutes each way driving to some nightmarish big-box retail hellhole in the outskirts of the city.

And let's not even talk about the clean air and nearly complete absence of road-raging premature-ejaculator drivers speeding along the city streets.

[-] azimir@lemmy.ml 49 points 1 month ago

Yesterday I headed out from the apartment for errands. I walked a total of about 8 blocks. I completed:

  • A haircut
  • Shopping for some house items
  • Post office for mailing a letter and stamps
  • Stopped to listen to some live music in a market hall
  • Talked with a local community group about tech stuff
  • Visited a library
  • Hit up the bank ATM
  • Snagged a couple bags of groceries

Total time: about 115 minutes

I LOVE living in a walkable neighborhood. Fuck car-only life. If you want it, fine, but don't demand that we all live in your apocalyptic transportation hellscape.

[-] FireRetardant@lemmy.world 24 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I could have done all thos trips in 40 minutes with my car, if we ignore the time in traffic, the time fueling it, the time waiting for oil changes, and the time spent earning the money to pay for the car, the gas, and the insurance.

[-] azimir@lemmy.ml 19 points 1 month ago

You also left out finding parking and then walking through spectacularly scenic parking lots to and from each destination's front door. With bigger malls/box stores you'd walk further than I did going around the block just having to cross the parking lot.

[-] FireRetardant@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago

Parking? All of those stops were drive thrus

[-] azimir@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Jokes on you: the city I moved away from in the US added a parking garage to the historic register. If you weren't so focused on waiting in a line of cars for the drive thru, you could be enjoying 10 stories of historically crumbling concrete!

On my errands I was subjected to walking past atone churches from the pre 1800's, going through a park, and going through a market hall from 1900. It was horrible. I didn't even get to wait at any traffic lights for a Micro Vacation during my travels. Sad. Just sad.

[-] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 4 points 1 month ago

In Europe, 18th Century churches are new.

[-] azimir@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 month ago

Yeah, though I'm also in Berlin so many were fully or partially rebuilt after the various wars. They're old and new now. Still gorgeous. I love me a tall stone building!

[-] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 6 points 1 month ago

Oh. Yeah, Berlin is definitely an exception...

[-] django@discuss.tchncs.de 5 points 1 month ago

Drive-thru haircuts sounds pretty weird imo.

[-] gothic_lemons@lemmy.world 3 points 4 weeks ago

Link to where you get your haircut via drive through?

[-] DigDoug@lemmy.world 14 points 1 month ago

Don't forget all that energy you saved by not walking anywhere. You paid good money for those calories and you're going to hold on to them for dear life.

[-] azimir@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 month ago

I won't lie, you had me at the first half.

Oh, look. The Torygraph.

[-] Ironfist@sh.itjust.works 37 points 1 month ago

"every opinion different than mine is stalinist!" said the chugs with their mouths full of mcnuggets and cheap beer.

[-] bobzer@lemmy.zip 9 points 1 month ago

Don't drag cheap beer into this!

[-] yakko@feddit.uk 3 points 1 month ago

Expensive beer is Stalinist

[-] pucker4676@lemmy.ml 28 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Does this also come with universal health care, free education, 100% employment, and housing as a right? If not, it's not very Stalinist.

[-] TheLeadenSea@sh.itjust.works 13 points 1 month ago

This is the UK, so we do actually have the NHS which is free at point of use for all citizens, provided you can wait the wait times, free primary and secondary education and university that costs £10k per year, and council housing for those who can't access housing in any other way. That's three out of four, at least.

[-] ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago

You just need to re-open the coal mines to get the 100% employment.

[-] TheLeadenSea@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 month ago
[-] Ooops@feddit.org 24 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

"[...] “perverse” and “Stalinist” approach to social control, adding: “It is an encroachment on civil liberties, and it is a page out of the East Germany playbook. With the 15-minute city, you will have to, in effect, apply for an internal passport to go and visit your granny."

That's nothing new. Fossil fuel funded desinformation and their not-less-desinformation-loving right-wing friends have a long history of telling the fairy tale of 15-min cities as a kind of population control.

It's all based on the basic premise that car-brains can't understand that "you cannot go there freely by car" is not the same as "you cannot go there freely at all". So when you tell them that you can only drive somewhere a limited number of times per year before paying a fee for using their car, their brain-damage automatically translates it to "I'm not allowed to go there anymore".

PS: Bringing the "East-German playbook" into this story makes it even more absurd, given the (non-)availability of cars and thus the quality of public transport in the ex-GDR. But that's another thing car-brains can't understand, so they will not see the problem.

[-] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 7 points 1 month ago

It's called a train ticket and it should be subsidized too

[-] Denjin@feddit.uk 14 points 1 month ago

Fuck the torygraph.

[-] DFX4509B@lemmy.wtf 13 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

It's Stalinist to want to cut down on car dependency and actually have a livable place.

  • Say the NIMBYs.

Really, the one thing we need to do is reduce car dependency to where you don't have to drive everywhere, and make it to where driving is completely optional at the very least.

[-] phutatorius@lemmy.zip 12 points 1 month ago

Living in a 15-minute city, it's almost as nice as the previously screeched-about "Shari'a no-go zones" in Paris. I was in one of those when that hysteria started, drinking an excellent bottle of wine with a friend of mine and a charming French-Algerian couple.

And if my quiet little city's modest efforts at pedestrianisation are Stalinist, then I've misunderstood Stalinism and maybe it's not so bad after all (except the purges, the Molotove-Ribbentripp pact and the Holodomor).

Note for the paranoid: you can easily be tracked if you drive a car, though in-car telemetry and ANPR cameras. But you're nearly invisible to the authorities if you're a pedestrian or a cyclist.

[-] ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago

the Molotove-Ribbentripp pact

Here's a fun mostly-unknown fact about this one: the pact(s) included military technology transfers, with one result being that advanced anti-aircraft guns earmarked for the battleship Bismarck were instead given to the USSR. Bismarck ended up being fatally crippled by British biplanes.

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[-] Marshezezz 11 points 1 month ago

When they argue in bad faith, they’ll say anything and never waver from it to further their agenda.

[-] Blackmist@feddit.uk 10 points 1 month ago

Today you can walk to the shops.

Tomorrow you're in a Siberian gulag.

Slippery fucking slope.

[-] FriendOfDeSoto@startrek.website 10 points 1 month ago

This is the Telegraph talking about Labour government plans. Of course they would present it like that.

I personally think the better way is to make people realize themselves that not driving is the better option. Linking omnipresent cameras with driver databases to implement a vague system of fines administered by the councils does not instill me with enough confidence either. I see contested fines clogging up courtrooms (or whatever legal recourse there must be) for years.

Raise parking fees, reduce parking spaces - at a relatively slow rate to keep predictable outrage local and small enough. Implement a system where every car purchase needs to be accompanied by a proof of parking like in Japan (owned driveway or rented spot). Invest in public transport and infrastructure for pedestrians and bicyclists. Tax breaks for infrastructure that's missing (a supermarket, a clinic, a theater, etc.). That would make more sense to me than the threat of punishment through this somewhat Orwellian system.

East Germany was an authoritarian state without rule of law. This can be true at the time as the fact that in most cities they created neighborhoods that come close to this 15-min ideal. Childcare, multi disiplinary medical "poly clinics," and decent public transport. Sure, long lines at the grocery store and an 18 year waiting list to buy a shit car. But it strikes me as extremely dumb to ignore useful lessons from that out of cold war principle.

[-] TheTechnician27@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago

Maybe tankies are the way they are because they live in some bastardized allegory of the cave where all they've ever learned about Stalin is from Duncan White, director of the Alliance of British Drivers.

[-] phutatorius@lemmy.zip 5 points 1 month ago

The tankies I've known have almost all been middle-class contrarian twats. They often convert to the hard right when they get older, maybe because it increases their chances of actually being able to ruin people's lives.

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[-] bufalo1973@piefed.social 7 points 1 month ago

"Journalism opens the door to writing articles after a frontal lobotomy"

[-] bossito@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago

They clearly never been to Moscow, they would love it though, a car hellscape.

[-] SlurpingPus@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago

As it happens, Russian cities saw huge sprawl during the USSR, though probably mostly starting in the sixties. As is usual, the pre-revolution city centre is twisty and cozy, while around it are radiating straight avenues for kilometres. So sorta the opposite of what the headline says.

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[-] balsoft@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 month ago

Eh, for all its faults Moscow has a fucking amazing metro+light rail system. All my friends who still live there aren't even thinking about buying cars, because why would they?

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[-] pewgar_seemsimandroid 5 points 1 month ago

least obvious bias.

[-] atro_city@fedia.io 4 points 1 month ago

Is the Telegraph a tabloid? What the fuck is that?

[-] bryndos@fedia.io 8 points 1 month ago

Yes, for at least the last 3-4 decades. It just has smaller print , costs more and only shows metaphysical tits.

[-] grimpy@lemmy.myserv.one 3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

so says a voice for the ‘stall in traffic’ demographic

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this post was submitted on 25 Jan 2026
539 points (100.0% liked)

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