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submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by jeffw@lemmy.world to c/politics@lemmy.world

Like an estimated two-thirds of the world’s population, I don’t digest lactose well, which makes the occasional latte an especially pricey proposition. So it was a pleasant surprise when, shortly after moving to San Francisco, I ordered a drink at Blue Bottle Coffee and didn’t have to ask—or pay extra—for a milk alternative. Since 2022, the once Oakland-based, now Nestlé-owned cafe chain has defaulted to oat milk, both to cut carbon emissions and because lots of its affluent-tending customers were already choosing it as their go-to.

Plant-based milks, a multibillion-dollar global market, aren’t just good for the lactose intolerant: They’re also better for the climate. Dairy cows belch a lot of methane, a greenhouse gas 25 times more potent than carbon dioxide; they contribute at least 7 percent of US methane output, the equivalent emissions of 10 million cars. Cattle need a lot of room to graze, too: Plant-based milks use about a tenth as much land to produce the same quantity of milk. And it takes almost a thousand gallons of water to manufacture a gallon of dairy milk—four times the water cost of alt-milk from oats or soy.

But if climate concerns push us toward the alt-milk aisle, dairy still has price on its side. Even though plant-based milks are generally much less resource-intensive, they’re often more expensive. Walk into any Starbucks, and you’ll likely pay around 70 cents extra for nondairy options.

. Dairy’s affordability edge, explains María Mascaraque, an analyst at market research firm Euromonitor International, relies on the industry’s ability to produce “at larger volumes, which drives down the cost per carton.” American demand for milk alternatives, though expected to grow by 10 percent a year through 2030, can’t beat those economies of scale. (Globally, alt-milks aren’t new on the scene—coconut milk is even mentioned in the Sanskrit epic Mahābhārata, which is thousands of years old.)

What else contributes to cow milk’s dominance? Dairy farmers are “political favorites,” says Daniel Sumner, a University of California, Davis, agricultural economist. In addition to support like the “Dairy Checkoff,” a joint government-industry program to promote milk products (including the “Got Milk?” campaign), they’ve long raked in direct subsidies currently worth around $1 billion a year.

Big Milk fights hard to maintain those benefits, spending more than $7 million a year on lobbying. That might help explain why the US Department of Agriculture has talked around the climate virtues of meat and dairy alternatives, refusing to factor sustainability into its dietary guidelines—and why it has featured content, such as a 2013 article by then–Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack, trumpeting the dairy industry as “leading the way in sustainable innovation.”

But the USDA doesn’t directly support plant-based milk. It does subsidize some alt-milk ingredients—soybean producers, like dairy, net close to $1 billion a year on average, but that crop largely goes to feeding meat- and dairy-producing livestock and extracting oil. A 2021 report by industry analysts Mintec Limited and Frost Procurement Adventurer also notes that, while the inputs for dairy (such as cattle feed) for dairy are a little more expensive than typical plant-milk ingredients, plant alternatives face higher manufacturing costs. Alt-milk makers, Sumner says, may also have thinner profit margins: Their “strategy for growth is advertisement and promotion and publicity,” which isn’t cheap.

Starbucks, though, does benefit from economies of scale. In Europe, the company is slowly dropping premiums for alt-milks, a move it attributes to wanting to lower corporate emissions. “Market-level conditions allow us to move more quickly” than other companies, a spokesperson for the coffee giant told me, but didn’t say if or when the price drop would happen elsewhere.

In the United States, meanwhile, it’s a waiting game to see whether the government or corporations drive down alt-milk costs. Currently, Sumner says, plant-based milk producers operate under an assumption that “price isn’t the main thing” for their buyers—as long as enough privileged consumers will pay up, alt-milk can fill a premium niche. But it’s going to take a bigger market than that to make real progress in curbing emissions from food.

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[-] Beekeeper_Dan@lemmy.world 116 points 1 year ago

Need to keep the ag subsidies flowing so that rural areas keep voting conservative

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[-] Very_Bad_Janet@kbin.social 111 points 1 year ago

One thing nobody has commented on - how that article slips in a seemingly positive mention of Nestlé (they own the cafe that uses plant milks). That raised my eyebrows.

[-] assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world 28 points 1 year ago

I'm beginning to notice a handful of company ties to "make perfect the enemy of good" takes like this.

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[-] torknorggren@lemm.ee 79 points 1 year ago

Except almonds. Almonds are terrible water wasters, and mostly grown in California where they can least afford the water.

[-] trevor 86 points 1 year ago

Still more efficient on resource utilization than animal agriculture. If you hate almond milk for that reason, you should want the dairy industry completely abolished.

[-] jeffw@lemmy.world 48 points 1 year ago

Shit, you should want all animal agriculture banned.

[-] trevor 29 points 1 year ago
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[-] LanternEverywhere@kbin.social 71 points 1 year ago

Almond is the worst of the nut milks, but it's STILL way better for the environment than dairy.

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[-] clegko@lemmy.world 62 points 1 year ago

Because most plant juice tastes like shit and has the wrong mouth-feel for most things we use cow milk for. Its not rocket surgery.

[-] Anonymousllama@lemmy.world 25 points 1 year ago

Spot on. People are out here trying to play like almond, oat, soy and every other milk substitute is exactly the same as dairy based milk, it's not and will not ever be, they're different products

Also pretending that people swapping from dairy to alternate milks will somehow impact the looming climate crisis is also pretty disingenuous

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I'm not vegan or even vegetarian, so I feel pretty impartial on this. My partner uses oat milk for their coffee, and over the years I just got used to using it straight, or in cereals, etc. Now I greatly prefer it. It's just "milk" for me now.

Never thought it would happen, but getting cow milk when I'm out feels off - that mouth-feel you mention; just doesn't sit right anymore. It really is an acquired taste.

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[-] seaQueue@lemmy.world 57 points 1 year ago

The dairy lobby in the US is huge money. If you ever want to know why we're making a seemingly stupid decision follow the money, look at the entrenched interests and read some history. We subsidize dairy farmers because we used to subsidize dairy farmers and they spent a bunch of their earnings lobbying for more subsidies.

[-] CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world 23 points 1 year ago

Granted, tobacco is far worse than dairy in its health outcomes, but imagine if big tobacco had somehow managed to get schools and government agencies to push their product onto children as a "health" product. Dairy is much like that.

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[-] Grass@sh.itjust.works 44 points 1 year ago

Probably because everyone tried only the shittiest alt-malks, assume they are all bad, and somehow don't get heartburn and diarrhea and gunky mouth and throat feel from cow milk. I save all my lactose intolerance suffering for cheese and ice cream.

Seriously though it's the same as people that say only bad things about tofu but have only eaten white American 'recipes' that genuinely suck. Meanwhile Asians happily inhaling literal tons of it prepared in actually good meals. Try making bread from scratch without salt (or salty ingredients) and that's what tofu foods for the white market remind me of.

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[-] MrMcGasion@lemmy.world 42 points 1 year ago

My personal theory is that we subsidize dairy not for the milk, but for the cheese. As far as I'm aware you can't make cheese out of plant milks, and we've gotten pretty reliant on cheese as a source of protein and other nutrients in our American diets - especially among children and lower income diets.

[-] pjhenry1216@kbin.social 25 points 1 year ago

You can make plant-based cheeses. And some of them are pretty good. But they lack all of the same properties. Like, you can get a cheese that that when hot will stretch a little bit like the cheese on a pizza, but as it cools off it loses all of that elasticity and is not great for lukewarm pizza. You can get cheese that is pretty decent for lukewarm and hot pizza, but it doesn't have that stretch. It more just rips apart. And you definitely don't have the span of "flavors" of cheese or whatever you'd call it. Some of the big ones, sure, but again, they don't have all the same physical properties.

I don't mind the loss of those properties, but many people do.

Cheese isn't a great source for protein compared to beans in regards to price though.

Honestly, I think we subsidize the dairy industry simply because they've been lobbying so long. Meat is subsidized too. It's the one market that the conservatives are fine with ignoring the mantra of "free market" and support regulating the hell out of it in whatever way supports the "farmers" (big farm is nothing like the labeling suggests and is all headed by big guys in suits who likely never have been on a farm in their life).

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[-] isles@lemmy.world 22 points 1 year ago

Look up: cheese caves. 👍

[-] Moobythegoldensock@lemm.ee 28 points 1 year ago

In short: There is so much excess cheese out there that the US government is literally storing billions of pounds of it in underground caves.

https://www.farmlinkproject.org/stories-and-features/cheese-caves-and-food-surpluses-why-the-u-s-government-currently-stores-1-4-billion-lbs-of-cheese

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[-] Sanity_in_Moderation@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago

What the fuck

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[-] Blackmist@feddit.uk 32 points 1 year ago

Because lots of people in your country drink it, like it, and even more eat things made from it. Like cheese.

"Two thirds of people can't tolerate lactose" is utterly fucking meaningless in this context. Most of those are in Asia. Last I checked, it was countries giving out subsidies, not some nebulous world council.

And nearly all farming gets subsidised, because that reduces reliance on external countries. You've seen what capitalism did to housing. You don't want that to happen to food.

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[-] phoneymouse@lemmy.world 30 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

How is it better for us? Most plant milks have no protein in them or a fraction of the protein of real milk. Not to mention plant milk often doesn’t taste great. Oat milk is the only one I find acceptable and even then I don’t prefer it to real milk.

Also, there are other dairy products like yogurt and cheese that you need real milk for.

[-] Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 22 points 1 year ago

We get most of our protein from sources other than milk. Humans are the only animal that continues to drink milk past weaning and the only animal that drinks milk from another animal and only a minority does it...

So... how does the majority of humans survive without drinking milk?

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[-] pjhenry1216@kbin.social 18 points 1 year ago

Dairy milk is gross. I stopped drinking it nearly 15 years ago. I wasn't vegan or vegetarian at the time. It just tasted awful. I still would eat cheese than, but as a drink, dairy milk is plain awful. It's also terribly inefficient. It's not shelf stable. It has a short lifespan. It requires a lot of water and energy per cup than many others.

Do plant-based milks taste exactly like milk? No. But they don't have to.

And how is it better for us? Considering a majority of the world can't digest it is a big sign as to why plant based is better. Soy isn't the only option. There's almond, pea, banana, cashew and coconut to name a few.

[-] AffineConnection@lemmy.world 22 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It’s not shelf stable. It has a short lifespan.

Ultra-pasteurized milk has a remarkable shelf life, even when unrefrigerated.

And how is it better for us? Considering a majority of the world can’t digest it is a big sign as to why plant based is better.

Your argument becomes a non-sequitur when extended to people who are lactose tolerant. The mere existence or ubiquity of lactose intolerance does not entail that milk is bad for the lactose tolerant. Perhaps plant substitutes to cow milk are better for even the lactose tolerant, but lactose intolerance is completely irrelevant to the minority of us such as myself who produce sufficient enzymes to digest lactose without any difficulty whatsoever.

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[-] BraveSirZaphod@kbin.social 21 points 1 year ago

Dairy milk is gross.
as a drink, dairy milk is plain awful.

I mean, you have to realize that this is strictly subjective, no? One could just as easily say that oat milk is gross and plain awful. I'd disagree - I think it's great - but "it's icky" is not a useful argument, speaking as someone who mostly buys oat milk nowadays.

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[-] mrcleanup@lemmy.world 28 points 1 year ago

My takeaway from this is that Nestle probably doesn't own any dairy companies, but probably does own a plant that makes oat milk. They keep all the profit in their own ecosystem by buying their supplies from themself and then get to tell us how green and thoughtful they are.

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[-] shanie@mastodon.tails.ch 27 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I had this fantastic plant-based milk product on my store shelves called "Not Milk". I really enjoyed it. Had this mild coconut flavor which might turn off some (not me) but anyway, it's gone now because it was too expensive for the market I'm in.

Meanwhile gallons of milk flow for the same purpose, only subsidized for under half the cost per ounce.

As we do, we stifle innovation ourselves based on our past.

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[-] pedroapero@lemmy.ml 24 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Are there actual studies showing that plant-based alternatives are better for health (for individuals that digest lactose just fine like me) ?

I switched to alt-milks for ecological reason but media keep talking about the negative health effects of «ultra-transformed food», which alt-milk very much sounds like...

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[-] LongPigFlavor@lemmy.world 24 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I prefer plant-based milk over dairy, it tastes better and it lasts longer. I tried plant based milk years ago and never went back. I've tried cashew, macadamia, rice, soy, almond, coconut, oat, and sunflower. Some of my favorites are vanilla almond, dark chocolate almond and cashew, vanilla macadamia, and vanilla coconut. My family still buys dairy milk, but we always bought plant-based butter. I buy cream cheese to use as bread spread.

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[-] JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works 23 points 1 year ago
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[-] arc@lemm.ee 22 points 1 year ago

I don't see why dairy should be subsidized but some plant milks aren't exactly environmentally friendly either. The best can be said is they're better than dairy, assuming the same land could be used for both. But they can be devastating in their own right. E.g. to grow 1 almond (i.e. one kernel) takes over 3 gallons of water. Other crops used to make milk like oats have lower water consumption.

[-] runlikellama@lemmy.sdf.org 17 points 1 year ago

The almond example is frequently brought up, but this is still half of what dairy milk requires, without taking into account the difference in land use too

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[-] SRo@lemmy.dbzer0.com 21 points 1 year ago

Because it tastes like shit. And I don't even drink milk but you can't even cook with the substitute shit.

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[-] MargotRobbie@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I see soy/oat/rice milk as their own thing, instead of a direct cow milk substitute/replacement.

There are many, many dairy product that are important as food or ingredients to other foods such as butter, yogurt, ice cream, cream, infant formula, and various cheeses that cannot be replaced directly by plant based alternatives.

And also, if you don't like milk, try getting one of those unhomoginized milk in glass bottles that's usually directly bottled by local farms. You have to shake a lot to get the cream on top dissolved again, but there is nothing that's quite like an ice cold cup of that.

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[-] banneryear1868@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago

Milk, cream, cheese (most of what milk ends up as), and butter, are all delicious, despite the corrupting economic and political arrangements. Is the quantity consumed appropriate? The US diet is demanding.

The article sort of glosses over the input required to grow plant-based milk products effectively at scale, and the fact they don't constantly produce like cows, the ways the crops can be destroyed and what's required to protect them. A byproduct of dairy farming is manure, often used to fertilize vegetable crops, but the nitrogen fixation used in synthetic fertilizers requires a lot of energy input as well.

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[-] J12@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago

I haven’t had a glass of milk in years. It kinda grosses me out, but I love some cheese. But I’m doing my small part in not buying gallons of milk.

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[-] RagingRobot@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

We don't need non human milk in the first place so I don't need a milk alternative either lol

Also, for the record I'm mostly off human milk too now that I'm an adult

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this post was submitted on 02 Oct 2023
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