Plus if you really regret not having children you can always become a foster parent/adopt.
On the other hand: what if you do have children and you regret that? Start killing?
Fake your death, orphan your kids, why kill them. Plus, it has a benefit that you can disappear from your old life and start anew! Somewhere in Finland or Norway or Japan.
That's my answer everytime. Tbf I love children I just don't want to be a parent, but if some day I regret it I can adopt!
My family always say "oh it's not the same, you don't know where they came from"
MF my children would have more mental health issues than anyone out there. Also I have 2 dogs and 2 cats that I love more than anything and Idk where they came from either. If I can love pets I can love a child even more.
An adopted girl I knew would say "your parents were stuck with you, but my parents chose me!"
Yup. I got the snip for a few reasons, but when we get more financially stable we plan on adopting/fostering.
I never had kids, but being a school bus driver has made me regret not having kids. Being a school bus driver has also made me thrilled to the fucking core that I never had kids.
There's a H U G E difference between your kids and other people's kids.
As a bus driver, you're basically working in a penitentiary and coming to the conclusion everyone's a criminal. Well... Yeah...
I would MUCH rather be unhappy that I didn't have kids than unhappy that I did.
Yep!!
There's nothing wrong with having kids. There's also nothing wrong with not having kids. Why are people so aggressive toward the other side?
because (IMHO) a lot of people that have kids either didn't time it right or didn't think it through, or it happened by accident.
and they are now wishing to get their freedom back.
kids (I'm sure) can be great and worth the return on investment.. but there's immense pressure on them to do well as a representation of the parents.
sucks.. but it do be that way.
I planned my kids and still can't wait to get some of my freedom back. Both can be true.
No amount of babysitting or exposition can truly show you show how relentless having kids is. Timing and planning will help alleviate that. But you are still one flu away from two weeks of hell. And that's when your kids are healthy.
I think not having kids requires similar efforts of planning/thinking it through - just in a different way. Here's an example that really made me thing about it: My friends neighbor are a childless elderly couple. The wife has dementia of some sort. Things have rapidly escalated - and the husband is not able to care for her or make decisions rapidly enough to keep them both cared for. My friend regularly has to intervene or help (she does not want to). She is also childless and genuinely surprised at the amount of care an elderly couple needs from outside just with day to day stuff. Having kids does not guarantee you won't fall into this situation. But I don't think people realize how much support the elderly need - and that it is most often provided by family members. I understand in an ideal world we would care for the elderly differently, but this is our reality today. So not having kids comes with a price down the road.
I also think the number of parents who actually regret having kids is smaller than you think. But to be fair, parenting is tough. My kid once pooped in an actual fan. So there are moments that even I wish didn't happen.
In all cases, neither side is right or wrong. And I think we should have more empathy for folks - even if they chose a path we would not.
I know you said it, but counting on family support when you are elderly is such a gamble. I know so many people that moved away from family or their kids are too busy with their own lives to support. Many people get out into a home and visited a few times a year.
People overlook an obvious factor: having a kid physically changes your brain, and therefore how you perceive parenting. I know of lots of instances of this change happening anecdotally, someone radically changes their stance after an unplanned pregnancy.
Neither side is necessarily wrong, but choosing one or the other impacts who you are as a person so it's not as obvious as "I definitely [will/won't] regret it". So skip the social pressure and pro/anti natalist personal debates, but also don't hold too much blame against someone who struggles to grasp your mindset.
in 2016, there was a group in Spain that first looked longitudinally at moms who were recruited before becoming pregnant and then scanned for a second time a few months after the birth of an infant. What they found is going to sound like a bad joke, but it’s actually we think a good thing, which is the brain got smaller. So it lost some gray matter volume between that first preconception time point and the postpartum scan.
It's official folks, having kids makes you an idiot :D
I completely understand someone not wanting to have or not wanting to bring kids into this mess, but I also don’t think this is a gotcha.
Why not? Some people do not want to be a parent and never have. Just like others do not want to become dentists or accountants.
It’s different though. Being a parent is coded into us. Being a banker is not
Its clearly not coded into all of us. The "having kids is coded into us" is at least partly "most of us are coded to want to fuck." We now have options that mean that doesnt have to cause birth.
I expect your "us" isnt as wide as you expect, as this growing global sentiment shows.
But it's clearly coded into most people. I expected my friend group to not want kids due to our demographic but they're breeding like rabbits (on purpose)
my friend group = most people
Nice sample size mate
That was an example. You can look at survey data for the full picture: of those adults in my country who don't already have children a full 45% want to, and only 28% don't want them.
This isn't controversial - it was just surprising to me hence I brought up the anecdote.
did you ever want to be a hunter/gatherer. being a hunter/gatherer is coded in us.
That kinda sounds ideal, actually.
Until one bad weather summer means you can't gather enough food to see you through the winter.
I am in my fifties and a significant number of my friends and family opted to not have children. The children conversation use to come up a lot, mainly because parents refuse to believe that other actually do not want to become parents. Almost without exception, the reason those friends and family members opted to not have kids was because they did not want to. Only one person has ever given a nihilistic reason like "I don't want to bring a child into this fucked up world". Almost every said that they just did not want kids. Simple as that.
“I don’t want to bring a child into this fucked up world”
I hear this most often from people who do have kids.
Being a parent is coded into us.
If that were truly a universal natural imperative, then you'd think gays & lesbians wouldn't exist.
Many gays and lesbians still adopt
Yes, which only goes to show the disconnect between the two sets of preferences.
There's no genetic drive to be a banker in anyone. There is a drive to have children in some people, and that drive may not manifest for a while. At the same time, having a kid in your fifties is difficult in a way which retraining is not.
So it's not a good comparison. Just reply "I'm pretty confident, and having a child I don't think I want would be an insane thing to do and the only alternative".
In all fairness that's an awful comparison and they really need to just have better comebacks
Some people may think that by not having kids, their lives would be incomplete. But still having kids is one thing, but raising them right is quite another ball game.
Just provide your kids a gauntlet of dangerous trails that test their wits and reward the strongest of your children with love and banish the weak children from your realm. Eventually the strong children will make your reign absolute by securing you the presidency or the weak children will rebel and kill you. Either way, you win.
Can we not turn Lemmy into an insufferably smug r/childfree, full of teens/20 somethings hating on sprogs?
I didn't have kids until my late 30s, never had pressure from anyone to have them and certainly didn't get upset on the super-rare occasions that folk asked if I was thinking of having them.
Live your life, make your own call on your life decisions and don't allow yourself to be pressured by anyone. Having children should be your decision and yours alone, and ultimately it's noone else's business.
But to hate on kids is not healthy, and should never be normalised.
This is less childfree and more "every woman wants to be a mother of course!!!"
Like want to get your tubes tied? Nope we're not gonna do that because then you can't be a mother!!!
I'm purposefully exaggerating so you get the vibe, but this is a real problem facing women
In the amount of time you spent to write that comment you could have blocked this community 10 times over lol. Not every space should be catered to a specific person.
Over the years, I've changed my take on this. So what if a woman regrets it. She's the only one affected. Her decision. Her choice. A man can decide at any age to procreate so he is not as affected. Wife/partner doesn't want kids, he can find a woman who does. Versus having child(ren) that aren't wanted or supported who regret their own lives and have parents who regret they were born. Lots of regret all around. As to the grandchild loss and grandparent regret, there are plenty of kids out there who like having surrogate grandparents. Go for the least regret possible.
One major difference is our genetic wiring. You'll find that many many people with kids you meet say "I was pretty sure I didn't want kids, but once you have them you wonder why you ever thought you wouldn't want them."
So the answer is yeah, if you did have kids you would probably not regret it. It's just one of like the only 3 things we evolved to do as human beings, your body gives you really strong incentives to take care of your kids.
But if you never have kids you can also not regret it and both can be true.
I suspect a percentage of those who changed their minds just don't want to say they regret the living breathing people they live with. Saying you wish a person was never born is pretty harsh. But saying you wish you had kids hurts no one else.
There's also a selection bias - the parents of extremely disabled children have much less time to talk about it with us. And the parents of children who died young might not want to talk about it at all.
"Probably" is doing some heavy lifting there. My mother regretted having me, and was never shy about it. She's the one that decided against the abortion, but somehow I was the one that ruined her life by showing up. My entire life, I've felt like I should kill myself and finally make my mother happy.
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