It’s ironic that I find Hamas more believable than Israel. many people no longer trust the Israeli government
Which of the known genocidal liars do you believe? A) Israel B) Hamas C) none of the above
Hamas aren't genocidal.
Armed Opposition to colonialism is enshrined in international law.
If they were not intentionally targeting civilians in their military operations, you would be correct. Same as Israel, they say they dont do it, but they do.
That‘s called terror then, not being genocidal. Wanting to erase a whole people, by bombing all infrastructure, housing, hospitals, killing journalists and paramedics, sniping little children, poisening, blocking aid, blocking access to water, to food, erasing the culture of a people and stealing it to make it your own, systemically imprison, rape and torture people based on their ethnicity and boasting about it, clarifying its intend in social media, the press, the parliament — now that is genocidal and has been very clear since the end of 2023. Get fucked with your both sides apologia, creep.
But Hamas wants to wipe out the Israeli people, so by your own definition, that genocide. They're not currently capable, which makes one wonder what their objective was in the October attacks. It seems that they did it to goad Israel into tracking them and the using social media of the carnage to gain support internationally. That explains why they prepped protests across the globe (that started before Israel attacked). Unfortunately Israel went off the deep end and used it as an excuse to go way over the top, killing and abusing so many civilians. There are no good guys.
Hamas is being used as a stand-in for the Palestinian people, an excuse for violence against a people that is being suppressed and killed since the inception of Israel. The only users claiming Hamas to be „the good guys“ are usually Hasbara bros (you) trying to equate the oppressor with the oppressed. If settlers stole my land and killed all the people I’ve ever known and had done so for a century, you bet I’d want them gone — the Palestinians have a right to defend themselves. What I would not support is stealing other peoples land and killing them for their audacity to exist on said land — but that‘s what you are defending, tho.
I‘ve got nothing else to say to you, as you‘ve either been ingesting too much israeli propaganda, are an islamophopic racist or are straight up a Zionist yourself. There is no good faith in sight, with the kind of talking points you vomit out. That really makes one wonder.
The fact that both side's propoganda is extremely agressive against the both sides argument, is part of why this is a forever conflict. They all want to lay 100% of the blame on the other party.
If Palistinians and Israelis are not willing to acknowlege they both have to sacrifice their absolutism and fanatisism, this conflict will not end.
Every other conflict of this type only stopped when BOTH parties wanted it to end and made those sacrifices.
Whattup Zionist, what is this, both-side-ception? Both side's propaganda? BAHAHJAhwhhahahHAHAHAhahahahahahahahaHAHAHAHAHAhahhaaaaaa. No seriously, stop wasting everyone's time with that hasbara shit. You are argueing in favor of genocide, settler colonialism and apartheid. The fact that you actually use your life doing this kind of shit online is appalling and disgusting. You really should be ashamed. Now to the meat of your yapping.
Who's doing propaganda for the Palestinians? The big and ubiqious Palestinian lobby groups? The paid internet users and bots doing the anti-semitism by criticising Israel? Boy, you're paddling desinformation, borderline conspiracy theories, again, in favour of a genocidal settler colonial project.
Why does the actual victim, the genocided and suppressed people have to "acknowledge they have to sacrifice their absolutism and fanatisism"? Why is this a demand at all, as it's clearly in favour of the rapist getting their raping tolerated by society? Why isn't the only demand: The barbaric occupier has to stop genociding and suppressing the occupied and genocided people!? Your perspective is sickening.
The only party not wanting this "conflict" to stop is Israel, because there are still Palestinians in Palestine. Israel is the party that time and again does everything and anything to keep on killing and stealing and raping and celebrating it publically, like, you know, right this fucking moment.
Your venomous inhumanity makes me sick.
See, your highly emotional reaction is exactly what propaganda is supposed to evoke.
Let me just come out and say what I have been saying all the time in a language that you understand. Fuck Israel's government, the zionist imperialists and their paranormal death cult. They are nearly as bad today as theNazi fasism they used to suffer from.
Now that you can no longer argue that I am not a mostly neutral observer (everyone has some bias after all)
Let me show you how a mostly moral victim acts. Look at Ukraine. They are outclassed by Russia. Russia abducts their children, bombs their cities and risks nuclear disaster by fighting around nuclear power plants. This oppression as been frequent and the soviets killed them by the millions for generations now.
Are they mindlessly bombing Russian Cities in retaliation even though they absolutely could, no Are they kidnapping Russian civilians, no Are they beheadding Russian pow's, no Do they incoctornate their children to say their way of life and religion is superior to all others and it is their duty to forcably convert the rest of the world? No
That is why Ukraine has real firends in the internation community and not just friends of convenience.
Let me give you another example. When the ANC relialised thst violence was not going to get them freedom from the Apartheid government, they actively suppressed their own armed struggle to work with those on the other side opposing their oppression.
It was hard for them, it did not seem fair to many at the time, it was very close run at some points eith it nearly breaking down. but they did it for the sake of their future generations, because they valued their children and grandchildren lives more than their own souls.
Ukraine still rely on other countries ressources which makes them limited in retaliation. As opposed to palestine where they was occupied for 57 goddamn years wirh the whole world being fine with it. Resistances groups in many other occupied territory in the past did commit act of terrorism. Without those resistance groups not a single country would have been liberated.
You can scream fuck israel all you want if you don't support ressistance you support the oppressor
Good thing you ignored all the arguments I made by dismissing my comment as an emotional reaction. You declaring yourself as a mostly neutral observer does not remedy your previous pseudo-neutral, but actually in favour of the aggressor language. I'm also not interested in low quality comparisons with other conflicts you have heavily biased perspectives on. You've shown the quality of your takes, thanks.
Your example in regards to the ANC is deceptive, as the situation in Palestine is not the same and will result in annihilation of the Palestinian people, as that is the stated goal of the Israeli goverment and also the stated goal of the zionist ideology. That's different from the South African struggle, as the colonizers never actually did pursue the physical extermination of the Black majority as a demographic group. Your comment also does mischaracterize the process the ANC went through, as they did not simply “realize violence was not going to get them freedom” and then unilaterally suppress their armed struggle; instead, there was a negotiated process where the ANC agreed to suspend armed operations in 1990–91 in exchange for specific concessions from the apartheid regime (lifting the state of emergency, repealing key repressive laws, legalizing the ANC, etc.). Israel does not except something similar, as is proven by history and modern day events.
So again, you feign neutrality, but actually argue for the oppressor.
Stop trying, stop wasting my time, please proceed with account deletion, you are toxic as fuck.
you can see in this thread that people love the jewish conspiracy fantasies and the glorious arab freedom fighters can do no wrong
it's been that way for 100 years since the jews started moving back
the only fantasy being touted here is the moving back part and the revisioned history you try to establish. are you a racist and supremacist, what do you think?
They did kidnap a bunch of people and kill a load more, so they can fuck off.
It's funny because
Israel has been funding Hamas (Bibi himself has spoken multiple times about it) for many years, giving them the equipment to do October 7th.
Israel activated the hannibal directive according to their own (now former) defense minister on a live TV interview which means that on October 7th, many many many of the civilians and IDF soldiers that died were deliberately killed by the IDF themselves.
It takes 45 minutes to fly from end to end by helicopter. Many Israeli official has refused to deny that there was a stand down order, but the army was not deployed at all until hours and hour and hours later, when they could have driven with tanks there and back again multiple times, with an army of 165,000 in a country the size of new jersey, outnumbering them 28:1 with 100x the equipment on home turf (by Israels massively inflated numbers too)
Some of the Israeli hostages were not tortured in prison with Hama's by their own tongues, but were then raped when she got back to Israel. Meanwhile Palestinian hostages are tortured daily for decades, eyes gouged out, as well as gang raped and raped by trained rottweilers by Israeli forces, and civilian Israeli doctors don't report on it, but instead enable it.
As far as anyone should be concerned. Israel funded, executed their own attack of their own civilians, and enabled it by standing down as well as treated their own civilian hostages they took (and continue taking) 10x worse.
Oh its bad to resist colonial occupation sorry I forget my high horse back home.
Then kill their fucking soldiers, their politicians, their hypercapitalists, profiteering. Killing, torturing, maiming, raping and kidnapping civilians is not resistance. Fuck those fuckers.
How do you say SHUT THE FUCK UP and…please cite more sources for your bullshit at the same time? I’m conversational in about 5 languages and still haven’t figured out Zionist apology
Edited with a different link of IDF murder
The article you posted isn't related to what he said. Can you explain what you disagree with? Just trying to understand the conversation, not siding one way or another.
It's probably not a real commenter.
You'll find a trend on any controversial topic of posters who just post the first link they find and I think the assumption is that people won't read it. They're relying on people who agree in general to just go along with the upvote train, it usually works out for them.
This is wild. But I can see how that works. Thx for the info. Inwas wondering, what they were about with that link.
The article showcases the hypocrisy in demanding the oppressed people to behave more human than the barbaric oppressor is actually behaving towards them. Argueing that this user might not be a real account, just because you (or the other user, whatever) are unable to comprehend the critique is lazy and dishonest.
No. Who does the evil things, I talked about above, is an evil piece of shit and does not earn any support or approval. Doesn't matter, what fucking reasons or ideology they have. To act like this never has lead to anything and it was never a strategy to win anything. Those deeds are just pure hate and are absolutely condemnable.
Nobody approved of atrocities. But you demanded an oppressed people to resist in a specific way, that you personally see as morally just. But you have no idea about the lived reality on the ground. It would have been stronger to focus your condemning language towards the oppressor, that did and still every day is doing the same and uncountable worse and more atrocities. But you didn't do that. You actually never did that.
You only ever reacted towards comments that did display Hamas in the slightest positive way. You never ever reacted on comments that did display Israel or the IDF in the slightest positive way, although they are the genociding settler-colonial actor here.
So either you are just reacting on conditioned indoctrination or are a chauvinist^1^ or are maybe even just a racist. Which is it?
1: Unwarranted bias, favoritism, or devotion to one's own particular group, cause, or idea.
"Resisting" by kidnapping and killing civilians. I mean it worked out great didn't it? It certainly got the occupying forces out of their country, didn't it? Great plan. Fucking geniuses.
Good thing we have internet chauvinists like you, that tell Palestinians how to resist genocidal settler colonialism the right way and waste everyone's time by muting the actual atrocities being commited every fucking day by Israel. Fucking genius.
Palestinians are being ethnically cleansed and genocided for 77 years. Their occupiers are violent, racist monsters who control Western governments and brainwash people with their victimhood propaganda.
Frankly they can get fucked and go back to Europe where they're from.
Poor IDF soldiers on their IDF bases on Palestinian land.
Why do people find it so hard to realise thst both parties have done, are doing and will continue to do dispicable things?
The only reason why Israel's body count is higher, is because it is more powerfull.
Hamas targets military bases. Israel targets schools.
Hamas also blindly shoots rockets at cities. Why is that so difficult to recognize? Its as obvious as Israeli using terror bombing.
Hamas shoots rockets at military targets only. Too bad Israel uses human shields and puts their military bases in cities.
On stolen land, that is.
The body count is higher because they started the war and made Gaza into an open air prison. Nakba is a thing.
Oh yes, those 9 month old soldiers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnapping_and_killing_of_the_Bibas_family
Not kidnapped by Hamas but other groups in the chaos. And killed by Israel. Also why was there a baby on a military base?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nir_Oz
Nir Oz was founded on 1 October 1955 as one of the first Nahal settlements. It was established as a military outpost to guard the area between Nirim and Nir Yitzhak from Palestinian incursions.
Families often live near military bases so they can be together. You must know this. You see that's the problem when you decide to defend the indefensible - you just end up looking stupid.
Very few children were killed during Al Aqsa Flood so Hamas did a good job avoiding casualties then.
the point is, that these are military outposts of a settler colonial landgrab. they are purposely mixing armed cilivian (settler) infrastructure with military (colonial) intend. they have no right, under international law, to be there at all. they are settlers, not civilians.
The resistance did not target any hospital, school, or house of worship; it did not kill a single journalist or any member of ambulance crews.
I don't think that's the issue most people had with it, so I don't see how proving you're right about it would help.
Gaza has been levelled and its people starved on the ostensible statement of ‘getting hamas’. If the excuse for all of this was ‘Hamas killed people’, well Israel kills people therefore Israeli cities would be justifiable targets for the same treatment gaza got.
It’s not enough for the enemy to kill people. The enemy must always commit unspeakable atrocities. Hence the allegations of beheaded babies and systemic acts of rape. While you may think that it’s not important to investigate these things it clearly is, otherwise Israel would not be making such claims with no evidence.
Saying that your enemy beheads children and rapes women is all part of a dehumanisation strategy to justify genocidal acts and is common amongst oppressors to the oppressed. E.g. African American being characterised as hypersexualised savages who would rape white women in the jim crow south.
Most people are ignorant of the Nakba or the policy of "mowing the grass"
I'm kinda wondering what the goal is here.
It's mostly been suppressed, but there's a good amount of footage from the day, recording it seemed like a priority. Like, here on Lemmy if someone could somehow avoid things getting removed and post the footage we'd just have someone saying it's AI or just generically sealioning and then whichever opinion felt more unpopular would be suppressed, but we're talking about organizations who can actually verify sources.
My best guess is they're hoping they find more bad stuff from Israel than Hamas, and that might be a solid play but I kinda doubt it. Most of the footage from the day of I've seen just make Israel feel kinda incompetent.
Israel wants to hide how many people were killed by the Hannibal directive, has made up a fake rape hoax and did much more lying to manufacture consent for the genocide.
Much of the Western audience still believes this obvious propaganda because Israel blocks all investigations into it and Western media uncritically repeats every Israeli lie.
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