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Upwards mobility (lemmy.dbzer0.com)
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[-] Krauerking@lemy.lol 8 points 1 day ago

I am so tired of worse products in the name of upgraded products that are literally worse in every way but a bunch of buzzwords and in groups bragging at the top while not knowing anything at all about programs or even the product at all but just seem to be there because they drink with the CTO.

Ugh. The twiddling thumb era of trying to look busy by dismantling the old machines for parts.

[-] Digit@lemmy.wtf 5 points 1 day ago

So that's why we suffer enshitification.

Those who succumb to the Socio-Economic and climb it so.

"Upwards mobility".

[-] somegeek@programming.dev 23 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I say this is only ok because he did that in amazon. Fuck amazon

If he did that in a medium-or-less sized company that would be a really shitty move.

[-] RagingRobot@lemmy.world 8 points 1 day ago

The problem is the large companies like Amazon buy all the small ones and put these people in charge lol

[-] julietOscarEcho@sh.itjust.works 17 points 1 day ago

In a small company noone would try to label you "l5" or "l6" and probably an actual human would make your comp decision. You take the byzantine incentive structure away and people just try to do a good job.

[-] chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com 238 points 2 days ago

Well at least harming Amazon is a net good

[-] BenjiRenji@feddit.org 72 points 2 days ago

Imagine getting paid to do it.

[-] wheezy@lemmy.ml 15 points 2 days ago

Was in this position at Microsoft for two years. I already hated them because I ended up working for them after they acquired my smaller company. Pennies on the dollar, massive layoffs beforehand, fired literally all the most important people (which is why I wasn't fired, I really am just trying to collect a paycheck and do nothing more).

Anyway, ended up basically being placed in a middleman position that I quickly realized didn't need to exist. Basically, spent two years slowing down communication between my companies team and the existing Microsoft team. Literally, I just kept the two teams from directly communicating and going through me for everything. I think I wrote less than 1000 lines of code during that time.

And no, I didn't like my team either from the original company. They were all new hires prior to us being acquired and they fired everyone on my team that had worked on the project for nearly 5 years. So, didn't feel bad about slowing them down either.

Basically a shitty startup that milked it's employees with hopes of Microsoft becoming our customer. Encouraging people to exercise their options only to sell the company for pennies on the dollar and fire them.

Got through two years of slowing down an awful genocide supporting company before the layoffs finally got me.

Was a good run.

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[-] fruitycoder@sh.itjust.works 11 points 1 day ago

Honestly probably got the project to more maintainable state. Probably didn't need the rewrite to do it in a new lang to do it (the real killer hear it sounds like).

Those monoliths suck on the operations side, and even worse when it's a corpse holding up the foundation to other projects that actually need it to change. Need to scale? good luck that decades old pizza box we call a server isn't supported anymore. Oh of course we can spend millions virtualizing dead hardware to keep it running the same.

[-] tetris11@feddit.uk 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Yeah, longterm wise - Go is far easier than Java to maintain. This is still a win, albeit with a slight initial disadvantage

[-] MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip 148 points 2 days ago

And this is why you rarely find decent people with good income in todays economy.

[-] DupaCycki@lemmy.world 86 points 2 days ago

You write clean code and you get replaced in 2 months, because everyone can work on that code.

You write an unreadable mess that no raise will convince other employees to work on and suddenly your holiday requests don't get declined anymore.

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[-] JackbyDev@programming.dev 59 points 2 days ago

I fought for getting a 4/5 rating at an old job and gave lots of examples. Their argument was that I didn't deserve it because those were just expected. I pointed out my work compared to others in my team and was told that it compares across the company, not the team. I kept causing a fuss about it because I was so angry about it and finally my manager said something about the bonuses has already been communicated and people would be angry to get less. I was confused because I didn't want more money, I was just offended they said I was performing on average when I was going above and beyond every day. It was also really embarrassing to me. If they'd just said the rating doesn't affect anything except your bonus I wouldn't have even cared.

The whole thing is all BS.

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[-] fubarx@lemmy.world 41 points 2 days ago

The whole thing is pegging my BS meter, including letting an L5 deploy without a code and architecture review, TC, and the fact that they're posting this and claiming they're still there.

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[-] criss_cross@lemmy.world 58 points 2 days ago

Yeah this was my experience when I worked there. Driving goals and doing good work isn’t enough. You need a fancy project to demonstrate “expanded scope” otherwise your promo would get rejected.

Sometimes things worked the way you wanted and people got promoted doing their normal job. A lot of times though there were a lot of fancy projects built to get people promos that suckers got stuck with the bill on.

This ain’t a case of one dude scamming the system as much as it is institutional rot from red tape.

[-] drosophila 5 points 1 day ago

Its pretty well known that "lines of code" is a horrible metric to judge programmers with. It seems "number of new projects" is pretty similar, though at a higher level of abstraction.

Unfortunately that metric is applied to a lot more than just programmers; and I think getting rid of it would involve completely restructuring the type of activity our society is oriented around, and would run up against the life philosophy of the people in charge.

Of course I'm not against progress, but I'm talking about executives that don't plan beyond the next quarter, politicians that don't plan beyond the next election cycle, the endless pursuit of growth, and the inability of market economies to cope with the fact that sometimes inaction is more advantagous than action. All of this encourages endlessly churning out 'new' things, without designing those things to last or putting in the effort to maintain them.

[-] chunes@lemmy.world 28 points 2 days ago

I apologize for bashing Java so hard in the past. I wish everyone wrote everything in Java these days. Digital life would be so much better.

[-] 1rre@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Fuck no.

I wish everyone used C#, Scala, Rust or Python (DSLs like VHDL, SQLs and CUDA and super specific languages like C, Erlang, Haskell and Bash notwithstanding).

You can hate on them, sure, each for their own reason, but they're all very well supported and good for what they're intended for.

[-] chunes@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

Sure, me too, but that's my point. Even Java is better than what we have now, especially from the user's perspective.

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[-] VirtuePacket@lemmy.zip 38 points 2 days ago

Sounds about right. There is no longer any incentive to focus on maintenance and incremental improvement (the stuff that actually keeps the lights on and the revenue flowing). It's all about the new and shiny--even when it results in regression.

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[-] A_norny_mousse@feddit.org 93 points 2 days ago

Sounds like whoever decides these things knows nothing about IT.

[-] rozodru@pie.andmc.ca 137 points 2 days ago

they don't. I mean for example Amazon puts all new hires on "on call" status for like a week every month. the LAST people I would want working On Call and waking up at 2am to try and solve something are fresh grad hires. You can actually watch videos on youtube of new grad amazon hires doing this, they actually document themselves, and the vast majority of them are "well it's 1am and I just got a call...I'm going to try and fix this ticket but really I have no idea what I'm doing" annnnnd generally nothing gets fixed or they break it worse. So they end up being sleep deprived, going into the office the next day and sleeping at whatever workstation they can find available and it leaves you wondering "what's the point?"

I personally am of the belief that being on call for stuff like this is pointless when you're world wide and could literally just transition the stuff to a different team in some other part of the world but I guess Amazon treats it as a sort of initiation process or whatever.

[-] zwerg@feddit.org 76 points 2 days ago

Its not an initiation, it's hazing

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[-] anugeshtu@lemmy.world 18 points 2 days ago

The one thing which COULD justify it, is technical debt. A programming language not supported anymore or in short-term/mid-term, bus factor, too much knowledge transfer, etc. But yeah, lots of times it's "business as usual" just for "progress" and fancy buzzwords.

[-] sping@lemmy.sdf.org 13 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Golang is technical debt in language form. A language that gained limited and now sagging popularity, for good reason. I hate to work in Java but hate golang more. It's the lightsaber of programming languages. I've got shit to do give me blasters and all the rest and I don't want to wank myelf off about how I did it all with channels.

[-] Sprocketfree@sh.itjust.works 16 points 2 days ago

Java is still supported... Or did I miss the memo?

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[-] planish@sh.itjust.works 48 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

[ In lieu of a comment, please see "Bullshit Jobs", by David Graeber, which is incorporated here by reference. ]

[-] AnarchistArtificer@slrpnk.net 52 points 2 days ago

Something I find cool about this book is that it's so well known that people who haven't even read it will often gesture towards it to make a point. It reminds me of how "enshittification" caught on because so many people were glad to have a word for what they'd been experiencing.

It's a useful phrase to have. Recently a friend was lamenting that they'd had a string of bad jobs, and they were struggling to articulate what it was that they wanted from a job. They were at risk of blaming themselves for the fact that they'd struggled to find anything that wasn't soul sucking, because they were beginning to doubt whether finding a fulfilling job was even possible.

They were grasping at straws trying to explain what would make them feel fulfilled, and I cut in to say "all of this is basically just saying you don't care what job you have, as long as it's a non-bullshit job". They pondered it for a moment before emphatically agreeing with me. It was entertaining to see their entire demeanour change so quickly: from being demoralised and shrinking to being defiant and righteously angry at the fucked up world that turns good jobs into bullshit. Having vocabulary to describe your experiences can be pretty magical sometimes

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[-] Berserker@programming.dev 15 points 2 days ago

Flawless victory.

[-] TomMasz@piefed.social 50 points 2 days ago

You get the behavior your incentives encourage, whether you realize what those behaviors are or not.

[-] Hupf@feddit.org 1 points 1 day ago
[-] 4grams@awful.systems 48 points 2 days ago

Yep, this is the culture I keep running head first into as I try to level up my career.

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[-] zwerg@feddit.org 56 points 2 days ago

Is that why they are gradually replacing the bad AWS Console UI with something 10x worse?

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[-] dukemirage@lemmy.world 68 points 2 days ago

What's L5 and L6? What's TC?

[-] slate@sh.itjust.works 98 points 2 days ago

L5 and L6 is a label for career progression, like getting promoted from staff to senior, just with different words. TC is total compensation.

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[-] kubofhromoslav@lemmy.world 51 points 2 days ago

Perverse incentives combined with underskilled management 😐

[-] falseWhite@lemmy.world 56 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Not really. That's just how it works at mega tech corporations. He should try working for a startup.

[-] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 40 points 2 days ago

This almost makes me appreciate my current job, where most stuff has been in place for years and any changes take forever.

It's kind of a bummer that it's going to take like six months to add a linter, and they only started using git like last year.

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this post was submitted on 09 Dec 2025
1224 points (100.0% liked)

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