984

SECRETARY OF DEFENSE Pete Hegseth is under increasing fire for a double-tap strike, first reported by The Intercept in early September, in which the U.S. military killed two survivors of the Trump administration’s initial boat strike in the Caribbean on September 2.

The Washington Post recently reported that Hegseth personally ordered the follow-up attack, giving a spoken order “to kill everybody.” Multiple military legal experts, lawmakers, and now confidential sources within the government who spoke with The Intercept say Hegseth’s actions could result in the entire chain of command being investigated for a war crime or outright murder.

“Those directly involved in the strike could be charged with murder under the UCMJ or federal law,” said Todd Huntley, a former Staff Judge Advocate who served as a legal adviser on Joint Special Operations task forces conducting drone strikes in Afghanistan and elsewhere, using shorthand for the Uniform Code of Military Justice. “This is about as clear of a case being patently illegal that subordinates would probably not be able to successfully use a following-orders defense.”

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[-] Mrkawfee@lemmy.world 2 points 8 hours ago

Lol, OK.

Still waiting for heads to roll for the CIA torture programme. The only person who went to prison was the whistleblower.

[-] Professorozone@lemmy.world 3 points 11 hours ago

Oh boy! There going to pay for this now!

/s

[-] dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world 10 points 21 hours ago

Ooh, I did not consider the possibility of a military court case on this. That could be a game-changer.

[-] smeenz@lemmy.nz 4 points 18 hours ago

I doubt it. Kegsbreath will just fire everyone involved in the investigation

[-] flop_leash_973@lemmy.world 7 points 20 hours ago

If anyone is held accountable, it will be the person that ultimately pressed the buttons and/or their direct superior.

[-] NimdaQA@lemmy.ml 4 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago)

I found this analysis from former US military lawyers: Link

TLDR: Anyone who issued or followed these orders can and should be prosecuted for war crimes.

Pete Hegseth questioned if the US should follow the Geneva Conventions in a book he wrote in 2024 (yikes!): Link

That is damning.

[-] echodot@feddit.uk 13 points 1 day ago

What absolute moron would obey that order?

I could see how maybe you could believe there was justification for the initial strike but there can be no justification for killing people who are now defenceless. Although why not just board the vessel and take everyone into custody, why instantly resort to deadly force, did they have information that the people on the boat were heavily armed or otherwise able to threaten a US naval vessel?

[-] notgivingmynametoamachine@lemmy.world 17 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago)

I won’t claim to have researched it myself, but I’ve seen about a dozen different people quote the section of military law that talks about illegal orders that are so blatant you don’t need to check or think, they’re illegal, and the example they use is “firing upon the shipwrecked”.

As in, the order to fire upon the shipwrecked should be immediately known to every Navy personnel as blatantly illegal as a precondition of their service.

If you’re performing the example for an illegal order, you’re executing illegal orders.

Edit: and I’m realizing now I responded to the wrong person.

[-] warbond@lemmy.world 3 points 22 hours ago

In my mind the rules are clear on that: to use deadly force there must be an imminent threat of death or serious bodily harm. Potential future harms can't even begin to be accounted for, so the standard has to be judged with those immediate circumstances in mind.

Even in that situation there are means to deter a threat or determine a person's intent prior to employing any sort of lethal force. There's nothing justifiable about this.

[-] SlartyBartFast@sh.itjust.works 22 points 1 day ago

Could be, should be, won't be

[-] Bluewing@lemmy.world 7 points 1 day ago

Oh don't worry, those down the chain will be prosecuted. Just not Hegseth.

load more comments (2 replies)
[-] leftzero@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago)

Could Be Held Liable

*Should

[-] Formfiller@lemmy.world 10 points 1 day ago

These idiots will never face consequences until the citizens get angry enough to start guillotine trials

[-] phutatorius@lemmy.zip 4 points 23 hours ago

Yeah, if any significant pushback ever happens, it's not going to be 14 years of court cases and bullshit appeals. It's going to be citizens' justice.

I'm not advocating it. I'm just saying that's how it could play out.

[-] Formfiller@lemmy.world 1 points 12 hours ago

They have done a really great job proving Luigi right this year

[-] sturmblast@lemmy.world 11 points 1 day ago

And they should be, MAGA is a terrorist organization

[-] demizerone@lemmy.world 22 points 1 day ago

Y'all mother fuckers ebeying in advance. These assholes will be held accountable. Call your representatives! Don't assume their power is so great because it's not!

[-] Formfiller@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago

Our representatives are literally owned by Israel and Israel loves this administration so I doubt we’ll get anything except a congressional hearing where they get a pool noodle beating for an hour or two. Why isn’t Trump in prison? That was a slam dunk case

[-] phutatorius@lemmy.zip 2 points 23 hours ago

Don't "y'all" me, we ain't kin and you don't know me.

And what I do on Ebay is my own business, Bubba.

[-] SirEDCaLot@lemmy.today 2 points 23 hours ago

Except the Democrats have basically just announced they are going to do nothing because their efforts wouldn't go anywhere. So better off not trying.

[-] UltraMagnus@startrek.website 3 points 1 day ago

You are absolutely right. And even if they only end up charging some random lieutenant at the bottom of the chain, it will send a message to the rest of the troops that they will not be protected from the consequences of their actions.

[-] TASchwitters@lemmings.world 4 points 1 day ago
[-] hayvan@feddit.nl 4 points 1 day ago

More like "should but won't"

[-] obamakitten@lemmy.ml 14 points 1 day ago

Yeah I hear Obama is going to be arrested for drone striking Yemeni civilians too #TrustThePlan #StayTuned #AreYouEnjoyingTheShow

[-] bold_atlas@lemmy.world 26 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Just like the Jan 6 hearings, they will drag it out for political points, but have no intention to seek actual charges, institutional change, military reform or anything.

It will just be: "Look at all the evil shit they did! Don't you wish something could be done! Oh well. Also Maduro bad m'kay, drugs bad m'kay, Hamas bad m'kay, we love troops m'kay. Hearing adjourned!"

[-] Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works 145 points 2 days ago

This is actually the example they use of an illegal order in the DOD manual.

Page 1117 18.3.2.1 https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23892053-dod-law-of-war-manual-june-2015-updated-july-2023/

[-] khepri@lemmy.world 19 points 1 day ago

This should be top of the thread everywhere this story is mentioned, forever.

load more comments (5 replies)
[-] Bubbaonthebeach@lemmy.ca 13 points 1 day ago

Which means, as the law is being followed in the US right now, only the plebs at the bottom might be held responsible.

[-] falseWhite@lemmy.world 203 points 2 days ago

100% nothing will happen, or they will just get pardoned. USA is done. Kaput. All hail Nazi USA.

[-] Kyrgizion@lemmy.world 70 points 2 days ago

Fairly sure the pardons are already filled out and signed preemptively.

load more comments (25 replies)
[-] Endymion_Mallorn@kbin.melroy.org 80 points 2 days ago

Held liable by whom? The President who absolutely would say he agreed with it? The legislature that will talk a good game but fold before doing anything important? The courts who are owned by the parties? Or the police who want this to be SOP, and wouldn't enforce any orders for arrest?

load more comments (12 replies)
[-] electric_nan@lemmy.ml 22 points 1 day ago

Spoiler: they won't.

[-] Maggoty@lemmy.world 18 points 1 day ago

That would require the administration's own people to bring those charges.

And I can already tell you the words you're going to hear if this makes it to court. "Unlawful Combatant", a designation we created so we could ignore the rules of war while fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq. Trump declared the Venezuelan drug cartels to be terrorists. Now they're treating them like we treated the Taliban in Afghanistan.

These guys are literally just waiting for the next outrageous thing to push this one out of the news cycle.

And yeah, we've been doing airstrikes like this for 20 years.

load more comments
view more: next ›
this post was submitted on 02 Dec 2025
984 points (100.0% liked)

News

33369 readers
2452 users here now

Welcome to the News community!

Rules:

1. Be civil


Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.


2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.


Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.


3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.


Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.


4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.


Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.


5. Only recent news is allowed.


Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.


6. All posts must be news articles.


No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.


7. No duplicate posts.


If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.


8. Misinformation is prohibited.


Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.


9. No link shorteners.


The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.


10. Don't copy entire article in your post body


For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS