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I want to let people know why I'm strictly against using AI in everything I do without sounding like an 'AI vegan', especially in front of those who are genuinely ready to listen and follow the same.

Any sources I try to find to cite regarding my viewpoint are either mild enough to be considered AI generated themselves or filled with extremist views of the author. I want to explain the situation in an objective manner that is simple to understand and also alarming enough for them to take action.

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[-] Blemgo@lemmy.world 44 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Maybe trying to be objective is the wrong choice here? After all, it might sound preachy to those who are ignorant to the dangers of AI. Instead, it could be better to stay subjective in hopes to trigger self-reflection.

Here are some arguments I would use for my own personal 'defense':

  • I like to do the work by myself because the challenge of doing it by my own is part of the fun, especially when I finally get that 'Eureka!' moment after especially tough ones. When I use AI, it just feels halfhearted because I just handed it to someone else, which doesn't sit right with me.
  • when I work without AI, I tend to stumble over things that aren't really relevant to what I'm doing, but are still fun to learn about and might be helpful sometimes else. With AI, I'm way too focused on the end result to even notice that stuff, which makes the work feel even more annoying.
  • when I decide to give up or realize I can't be arsed with it, I usually seek out communities or professionals, because that way it's either done professionally or I get a better sense of community, but overall feel like I'm supporting someone. With AI, I don't get that feeling, but rather I only feel either inferior for not coming up with a result as fast as the AI does or frustrated because it either spews out bullshit or doesn't get the point I'm aiming for.
[-] enchantedgoldapple@sopuli.xyz 11 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

This is a brilliant idea! I was wondering whether talking subjectively would be detrimental to my point, but having it explained this way is so much better. I think the key point here is to not berate the other person for using AI in between this explanation.

[-] Blemgo@lemmy.world 9 points 1 week ago

It goes a bit further than just not berating. People often get defensive when you criticise something they like, which makes it harder to argue due to the other side suddenly treating the discussion as a fight. However by saying "it's not for me" in a rather roundabout way you shift the focus away from "is it good/bad" and more about whether the other can empathise with your reasoning, and in turn reflect your view onto themselves and maybe realize that they didn't notice something about their usage and feelings about AI that you already did.

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[-] LuigiMaoFrance@lemmy.ml 33 points 1 week ago

If you want to explain your reasons 'in good faith' you should be honest, and not adopt other people's reasons to argue the position you've already assumed.

[-] MajorasTerribleFate@lemmy.zip 10 points 1 week ago

It's possible their intent is to solicit more concise, well-packaged versions of their existing position(s) that others have spent time honing.

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[-] canofcam@lemmy.world 30 points 1 week ago

A discussion in good faith means treating the person you are speaking to with respect. It means not having ulterior motives. If you are having the discussion with the explicit purpose of changing their minds or, in your words, "alarming them to take action" then that is by default a bad faith discussion.

If you want to discuss with a pro-AI person in good faith, you HAVE to be open to changing your own mind. That is the whole point of a good faith discussion - but rather, you already believe you are correct, and are wanting to enter these discussions with objective ammunition to defeat somebody.

How do you actually discuss in good faith? You ask for their opinions and are open to them, then you share your own in a respectful manner. You aren't trying to 'win' you are just trying to understand and in turn, help others to understand your own POV.

[-] krooklochurm@lemmy.ca 9 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Chiming in here:

Most of the arguments against ai - the most common ones being plagiarism, the ecological impact - are not things people making the arguments give a flying fuck about in any other area.

Having issues with the material the model is trained on isn't an issue with ai - it's an issue with unethical training practices, copyright law, capitalism. These are all valid complaints, by the way, but they have nothing to do with the underlying technology. Merely with the way it's been developed.

For the ecological side of things, sure, ai uses a lot of power. Lots of data enters. So does the internet. Do you use that? So does the stock market. Do you use that? So do cars. Do you drive?

I've never heard anyone say "we need less data centers" until ai came along. What, all the other data centers are totally fine but the ones being used for ai are evil? If you have an issue with the drastically increased power consumption for ai you should be able to argue a stance that is inclusive of all data centers - assuming it's something you give a fuck about. Which you don't.

If a model, once trained, is being used entirely locally on someone's personal pc - do you have an issue with the ecological footprint of that? The power has been used. The model is trained.

It's absolutely valid to have an issue with the increased power consumption used to train ai models and everything else but these are all issues with HOW and not the ontological arguments against the tech that people think they are.

It doesn't make any of these criticisms invalid, but if you refuse to understand the nuance at work then you aren't arguing in good faith.

If you enslave children to build a house then the issue isn't that youre building a house, and it doesn't mean houses are evil, the issue is that YOURE ENSLAVING CHILDREN.

Like any complicated topic there's nuance to it and anyone that refuses to engage with that and instead relies on dogmatic thinking isn't being intellectually honest.

[-] frezik 10 points 1 week ago

I’ve never heard anyone say “we need less data centers” until ai came along. What, all the other data centers are totally fine but the ones being used for ai are evil? If you have an issue with the drastically increased power consumption for ai you should be able to argue a stance that is inclusive of all data centers - assuming it’s something you give a fuck about. Which you don’t.

AI data centers take up substantially more power than regular ones. Nobody was talking about spinning up nuclear reactors or buying out the next several years of turbine manufacturing for non-AI datacenters. Hell, Microsoft gave money to a fusion startup to build a reactor, they've already broken ground, but it's far from proven that they can actually make net power with fusion. They actually think they can supply power by 2028. This is delusion driven by an impossible goal of reaching AGI with current models.

Your whole post is missing out on the difference in scale involved. GPU power consumption isn't comparable to standard web servers at all.

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[-] aesthelete@lemmy.world 6 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

For the ecological side of things, sure, ai uses a lot of power. Lots of data enters. So does the internet. Do you use that? So does the stock market. Do you use that? So do cars. Do you drive?

There are many, many differences between AI data centers and ones that don't have to run $500k GPU clusters. They require a lot less power, a lot less space, and a lot less cooling.

Also you're implying here that your debate opponents are being intellectually dishonest while using the same weasely arguments that people that argue in bad faith constantly employ.

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[-] s@piefed.world 28 points 1 week ago

“It’s a machine made to bullshit. It sounds confident and it’s right enough of the time that it tricks people into not questioning when it is completely wrong and has just wholly made something up to appease the querent.”

[-] sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 week ago

I know people like this lol

[-] Jhex@lemmy.world 21 points 1 week ago

I'm just honest about it… "I don't find it useful enough and do find it too harmful for the environment and society to use it"

[-] runner_g 11 points 1 week ago

And you then spend longer verifying the information its given you than you would have spent just looking it up to begin with.

[-] iii@mander.xyz 20 points 1 week ago

In a way aren't you asking "how can I be an AI vegan, without sounding like an AI vegan"?

It's OK to be an AI vegan if that's what you want. :)

[-] its_kim_love 19 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Stop trying to make AI Vegan work. It's never going to stick. AFAIK this term is less than a week old and smuggly expecting everyone to have already assimilated it is bad enough, but it's a shit descriptor that is trading in right leaning hatred of 'woke' and vegans are just a scape goat to you.

Explain how AI haters or doubters cross over with Veganism at all as a comparison?

[-] Evkob@lemmy.ca 12 points 1 week ago

Explain how AI haters or doubters cross over with Veganism at all as a comparison?

They're both taking a moral stance regarding their consumption despite large swathes of society considering these choices to be morally neutral or even good. I've been vegan for almost a decade and dislike AI, and while I don't think being anti-AI is quite as ostracizing as being vegan, the comparison definitely seems reasonable to me. The behaviour of rabid meat eaters and fervent AI supporters are also quite similar.

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[-] NFord@piefed.social 6 points 1 week ago

Like veganism, abstaining from AI is arguably better for the environment.

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[-] FaceDeer@fedia.io 5 points 1 week ago

This is the first time I've encountered the term and I understood it immediately.

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[-] HikingVet@lemmy.ca 17 points 1 week ago

The fuck is an AI vegan? There isn't meat and AI isn't food.

[-] Beardsley@lemmy.world 20 points 1 week ago

Your bed isn't really made for a king or queen.

[-] Triumph@fedia.io 13 points 1 week ago

The fuck it's not.

[-] AmidFuror@fedia.io 6 points 1 week ago

I get the impression his bed was made for twins.

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[-] dohpaz42@lemmy.world 12 points 1 week ago

It’s called a euphemism. We all know that a vegan is someone who does not use animal products (e.g. meat, eggs, dairy, leather, etc). By using AI in front of the term vegan, OP intimates that they do not use AI products.

I suspect you’re smart enough to know this, but for some reason you’re being willfully obtuse.

~Then again, maybe not. 🤷‍♂️~

[-] iii@mander.xyz 9 points 1 week ago

Ah ok. You might be new to language? There's this thing called analogy

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[-] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 9 points 1 week ago

It seems to mean people who don't consume AI content not use AI tools.

My hypothesis is it's a term coined by pro-AI people to make AI-skeptics sound bad. Vegans are one of the most hated groups of people, so associating people who don't use AI with them is a huge win for pro-ai forces.

Side note: do-gooder derogation ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do-gooder_derogation ) is one of the saddest moves you can pull. If you find yourself lashing out at someone because they're doing something good (eg: biking instead of driving, abstaining from meat) please reevaluate. Sit with your feelings if you have to.

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[-] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 18 points 1 week ago

Very simple.

It's imprecise, and for your work, you'd like to be sure the work product you're producing is top quality.

[-] Treczoks@lemmy.world 14 points 1 week ago

All current AIs are based on stolen content.

[-] hansolo@lemmy.today 9 points 1 week ago

You mean commercial LLMs.

AI as a term includes machine learning systems that go back decades.

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[-] NoSpotOfGround@lemmy.world 11 points 1 week ago

What are some good reasons why AI is bad?

There are legitimate reasons people worry about AI. Here are some of the strongest, clearly framed concerns:

1. Bias and unfair decisions

AI systems often learn from biased data and can unintentionally discriminate—against certain races, genders, ages, or socioeconomic groups—in hiring, lending, housing, policing, and more.

2. Lack of transparency

Many AI models act as “black boxes,” making decisions that are hard to explain. This creates problems when the stakes are high (medical diagnosis, legal decisions, etc.).

3. Privacy risks

AI can analyze huge amounts of personal data, track behavior, or identify people through facial recognition—often without explicit consent.

4. Job displacement

Automation threatens certain categories of work, particularly routine or repetitive jobs. Without proper planning, this can increase inequality and unemployment.

5. Misinformation and deepfakes

AI makes it easier to create convincing fake audio, video, or text. This can undermine trust in media, fuel propaganda, and destabilize democratic processes.

6. Weaponization

AI can be used in autonomous weapons, cyberattacks, targeted surveillance, or manipulation—raising serious security and ethical issues.

7. Overreliance and loss of human skills

As AI does more tasks, people may become too dependent, reducing critical thinking, creativity, or expertise in certain fields.

8. Concentration of power

Powerful AI tools tend to be controlled by a few big companies or governments, potentially leading to monopolies, inequality, and reduced individual autonomy.

9. Alignment and control risks

Advanced AI systems may behave in unexpected or harmful ways if their goals aren’t perfectly aligned with human values—even without malicious intent.

10. Environmental impact

Training large AI models consumes significant energy and resources, contributing to carbon emissions.


If you want, I can also provide reasons why AI is good, help you construct an argument for a debate, or analyze specific risks more deeply.

Were you looking for this kind of reply? If you can't express why you have an opinion maybe your opinion is not well founded in the first place. (Not saying it's wrong, just that it might not be justified/objective.)

[-] Armok_the_bunny@lemmy.world 22 points 1 week ago

Please, for the love of god, tell me you didn't write that post with AI, because it really looks like that was written with AI.

[-] NoSpotOfGround@lemmy.world 13 points 1 week ago

Except the first phrase and last paragraph, it was AI. Honestly, it feels like OP is taunting us with such a vague question. We don't even know why they dislike AI.

I'm not an AI lover. It has its place and it's a genuine step forward. Less than what most proponents think it's worth, more than what detractors do.

I only use it myself for documentation on the framework I program in, and it's reasonably good for that, letting me extract more info quicker than reading through it. Otherwise haven't used it much.

[-] enchantedgoldapple@sopuli.xyz 7 points 1 week ago

My question was genuine. I haven't been an avid user of generative AI when it was first released and decided against using it at all lately. I tried to use it in niche projects and was completely unreliable. Its tone of speech is bland and the way it acts as a friend feels disturbing to me. Plus the environmental destruction it is causing on such a large scale is honestly depressing to me.

All that being said, it is not easy for me to communicate these points clearly to someone the way I have experienced it. It's like the case for informing people about privacy; casual users aren't inherently aware of the consequences of using this tool and consider it a godsend. It will be difficult for them to convince that the tool they cherish to use so much is not that great after all, thus I am asking here what the beat approach should be.

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[-] athatet@lemmy.zip 5 points 1 week ago

“Good catch! I did make that up. I haven’t been able to parse your framework documentation yet”

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[-] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 10 points 1 week ago

I want my creations to be precisely what I intend to create. Generative Ai makes it easier to make something at the expense of building skills and seeing their results

[-] FaceDeer@fedia.io 10 points 1 week ago

and also alarming enough for them to take action.

Is this really an intent to explain in good faith? Sounds like you're trying to manipulate their opinion and actions rather than simply explaining yourself.

If someone was to tell me that they simply don't want to use generative AI, that they prefer to do writing or drawing by hand and don't want suggestions about how to use various AI tools for it, then I just shrug and say "okay, suit yourself."

[-] _cryptagion@anarchist.nexus 10 points 1 week ago

just say that you don't want to use it. why are you trying to figure out good reasons that somebody else came up with to not use something you have to elect to use in the first place? just say "I don't want to use genAI". you don't need to explain yourself any further than that.

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[-] Ludrol@szmer.info 9 points 1 week ago

"There are emerging studies about AI induced psychosis[1], and there is a possibility to go psychotic even if one doesn't have pre-conditions to become one. I would like to be cautious with the danger, like with cigaretes or Thalidomide. You never know how it might be dangerous."


[1] https://arxiv.org/pdf/2507.19218

[-] solomonschuler@lemmy.zip 9 points 1 week ago

I just mentioned to a friend of mine why I don't use AI. My hatred towards AI strives from people making it seem sentient, the companies business model, and of course, privacy.

First off, to clear any misconception, AI is not a sentient being, it does not know how to critical think, and it's incapable of creating thoughts outside from the data it's trained on. Technically speaking, a LLM is a lossy compression model, which means it takes what is effectively petabytes of information and compresses it down to a sheer 40Gb. When it gets uncompressed it doesnt uncompress the entire petabytes of information it uncompresses the response that it was trained from.

There are several issues I can think of that makes the LLM do poorly at it's job. remember LLM's are trained exclusively on the internet, as large as the internet is, it doesn't have everything, your codebase of a skiplist implementation is probably not going to be the same from on the internet. Assuming you have a logic error in your skiplist implementation, and you ask chatGPT "whats the issue with my codebase" it will notice the code you provided isn't what it was trained on and will actively try to fix it digging you into a deeper rabbit hole then when you began the implementation.

On the other hand, if you ask chatGPT to derive a truth table given the following sum of minterms, it will not ever be correct unless heavily documented (IE: truth table of an adder/subtractor). This is the simplest example I could give where these LLMs cannot critical think, cannot recognize pattrrns, and only regurgitate the information it has been trained on. It will try to produce a solution but it will always fail.

This leads me to my first point why I refuse to use LLMs, it unintentionally fabricates a lot of the information and treat it as if it's true. When I started using chatGPT to fix my codebases or to do this problem, it induced a lot of doubt in my knowledge and intelligence that I gathered these past years in college.

The second reason why I don't like LLMs are the business models of these companies. To reiterate, these tech billionaires make this bubble of delusions and fearmongering to get their userbase to stay. Titles like "chatGPT-5 is terrifying" or "openAI has fired 70,000 employees over AI improvements" they can do this because people see the title, reinvesting more money into the company and because employees heads are up these tech giants asses will of course work with openAI. It is a fucking money making loophole for these giants because of how many employees are fucking far up their employers asses. If I end up getting a job at openAI and accept it, I want my family to put me into a god damn psych ward, that's how much I frown on these unethical practices.

I often joke about this to people who don't believe this to be the case, but is becoming more and more a valid point to this fucked up mess: if AI companies say they've fired X amount of employees for "AI improvements" why has this not been adopted by defense companies/contractors or other professions in industry. Its a rhetorical question, but it makes them conclude on a better trajectory than "the reason X amount of employees were fired was because of AI improvement"

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[-] agent_nycto@lemmy.world 7 points 1 week ago

What do you normally say that you're worried sounds like an "Ai vegan"?

[-] Lladra@lemmy.world 7 points 1 week ago

You'd rather make your own painting than fill in a coloring book?

[-] ragebutt@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 1 week ago

What is an “extremist view” in this context? Kill sam Altman? Lmao

Welcome to the world of being an activist buddy. Vegans are doing it for a living being with consciousness. Your cause is just too, imo, but just like the vegan who feels motivated and justified in bringing up their views because, to them, it’s a matter of life and death you will be belittled and mocked by those who either genuinely disagree or who do recognize the issues you describe but do not have the courage or self control to change

Start with speaking when it’s relevant. Note that this will not always win you fans. I recently spoke to my physician on this issue, who asked for consent for LLM transcription of audio session notes and automatic summarization. I am not morally opposed to such a thing for health care providers but I had many questions: how are records transmitted, stored, destroyed, does the model use any data fed into it or resultant summaries for seeding/reinforcement learning/refinement/updating internal embeddings/continual learning (this point is key bc the language I’ve seen about this shifts a lot, but basically do they feed your data back into the model to refine it further or do they have separate training and production models that allow for one to be “sanitary”), does the AI model come from the EMR provider (often Epic) or a 3rd party and if so is there a BAA, etc

In my case my provider could answer exactly 0 (zero) of these so I refused consent and am actively monitoring to ensure they are continuing to not use it at subsequent appointments. They are a professional so they’ve remained professional but it’s created some tension. I get it; I work in healthcare myself and I’ve seen these tools demoed and have colleagues that use them. They save a fairly substantial amount of time and in some cases they even guarantee against insurance clawbacks, which is a tremendous security advantage for a healthcare provider. But you gotta know what you’re doing and even then you gotta accept that some people simply will be against it on principle, thems the breaks

[-] erlend_sh@lemmy.world 6 points 1 week ago

Here’s a piece I wrote to explain my apprehensive stance on AI to friends and colleagues: https://blog.erlend.sh/non-consensual-technology

[-] PeriodicallyPedantic@lemmy.ca 6 points 1 week ago

Depending on how hardcore you are about it, you can't.

Are you getting up in people's face to tell them not to use it, or are you answering why you choose not to use it?
Are you extremely strict in your adherence? Or are you more forgiving based on the application or user?

There are two general points I like to make:

  1. Big companies are using it to steal the work of the powerless, en masse. It is making copyright strictly the tool of the powerful to use against the powerless.
  2. If these companies aren't lying and will actually deliver what they say they're going to deliver in the timeline they stated, then it's going to cause mass unemployment, because even if (IF) this creates new jobs for every job it destroys, the market can't move fast enough to invent these new careers in the timeline described. So either they're lying or they're going to cause great suffering, and a massive increase in wealth inequality.

Energy usage honestly never seems to be a concern for people, so I don't even try to make that argument.

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[-] quediuspayu@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 1 week ago

What is your viewpoint?
Mine, for example, is that not only I don't need it at all but it doesn't offer anything of value to me so I can't think of any use for it.

[-] Nalivai@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago

"it looks like shit from a butt and sounds like shit from a butt, and if I wanted to look at a shit from a butt, I would do that for free"

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