I'm a gay man. I absolutely hate people who pander to us just as much as people who hate us.
The same should apply to trans groups, I sincerely doubt every trans individual wants to be placed on a pedestal at all times.
Result? Banned from a community.
Power trip confirmed 👍.
Anyone else notice the OP's account is five days old, and only has the comment they were banned for (now removed) as well as this post and the three replies in this post. Yeah, totally legitimate concerns here by OP.
Tl;dr: Transphobe desperately tries to garner attention.
If a hypothetical trans person were to feel that the actions and attitudes of !Transfem@lemmy.blahaj.zone were too pandering, said HTP would be more than welcome to cease association with that community.
You posted a comment that went contrary to, if not the letter, the spirit of the rules of the community. Your unsolicited negativity was deemed detrimental to the curated experience there.
I have little doubt that the same sort of comment made by anyone else, be they trans or cis, masculine, feminine, or neuter, would be handled by an equivalent invitation to no longer take part in a community that they expressed such an antithetical attitude toward the general spirit of.
At best, BPR; I tend to believe that you commented with the intention of crying foul about the action that you already knew would result. Otherwise you were not cognizant of the climate in the community you commented in, and therefore YDI.
In other words: if you shit in the punch bowl, do not be surprised when you are kicked out of the party.
Antithetical would be to be bigoted. Saying that neutrality is preferred over pandering is not bigotry.
You saying what I wrote was antithetical is disingenuous if not dishonest. But I know you can't stop yourself from bandwagoning because just like every other sheep in this comment section you see every difference in opinion as dissent from the hive mind.
Have an original thought.
I'll feed you a bit, as a treat.
The only disingenuity or dishonesty in our exchange so far is your willful misinterpretation of what would be, in context, antithetical. In this discussion, it is anything in diametrical contrast to the letter and spirit of the community you were banned from. It is not for you to be the arbiter of what is or is not perferred there.
The community in question and others on LBZ practice a form of extreme acceptance. It is codified in the mtf community sidebar in the statements:
This is a supportive community...
and
...disrupting the safety of this space for trans feminine people is unacceptable and will result in moderator action.
and
Gatekeeping will not be tolerated.
and
Please be kind and respectful to all.
Your removed "challenge" to the tone of the original post falls in direct opposition to the stated guidelines for being allowed to contribute there. Even the recreated, possibly sanitized version you have presented here is clearly beyond what many LBZ communities find acceptable. Further argument to the contrary, coupled with your attempts to personally disparage anyone who does not agree with your erroneous position, only solidifies the notion that you are not operating in good faith.
If everyone is presenting a similar version of the same reasoning, that does not necessarily imply a hive mind; sometimes it just means you are an asshole.
I actually agree with this statement in regards to neutrality versus affirmation, though I don't think it actually applies in this case.
I'm just going to unpack some definitions. I'm not going to use the loaded word "pandering." Some people will value neutrality, which I define as being treated the same as everyone else while ignoring any recognization of someone's identity in a marginalized group, over positive affirmation, which I define as people paying special considerations toward someone in a way that directly validates a person's identity. Pandering, a different but occasionally related term, refers to a person who uses positive affirmation for personal gain without necessarily believing in the identity or person they're affirming.
Genuine pandering is a problem, and examples include greenwashing, performative feminism, and rainbow capitalism. Right-wingers sometimes falsely accuse people or organizations of "pandering" when said people or organizations genuinely believe what they preach. There is no evidence that OOP was pandering, and an abundance of evidence that OOP genuinely believed what she wrote.
Some people prefer neutrality, and that's okay if they don't demand that everyone must adopt neutrality. Some people want people in their lives who are affirming, which is also okay if they associate themselves with people who genuinely want to be affirming.
The issue here is that you invaded another group and insisted they must live by your standards. You wrote here that you "hate people who pander" and that since you personally don't like that, "the same should apply to trans groups." I believe that is bigoted, but I rate it like a 3 out of 10 on the Bigot Scale.
I'm not telling the gay male community that their gayness must be affirmed, if that's not what they want. I have no right to. It's up to all of us whether neutrality or affirmation feels right for us, and then communicate that accordingly. In my case, I prefer affirmation with close friends, but neutrality in the workplace.
I'll say that I've seen so much transphobic stuff with "I'm a gay man" as an opening line, and it's getting exhausting. LBT without the G lmao (/sarc, of course, as I'd rather we all find ways to coexist).
How's that for an original thought?
Obvious troll. Doesn't include their actual comment. Probably phony tale about "i am a gay man". YDI.
Sorry that I got sucked into engaging with this creep. Should be banned.
YDI/YDM.
You are also missing #4 of the posting guidelines. No, your comments after the screenshot do not qualify, there is no substance there. It does provide some insight into what you posted, though not the way you were probably hoping it would be interpreted.
You deserved it, look into a mirror and ask yourself if you'd like this happening to you.
Deserved it.
You, a non-trans person, went into a trans community talking about trans stuff, implied that they shouldn't talk positively about trans stuff on a trans community, and then accused the mods of powertripping when you were banned for going off topic.
It's not like that post was put on a general Lemmy community. Trans people are going to say nice things about trans people in their own communities. It's okay when a trans person has a friend who chooses of their own volition to be accepting of them. Is a personal genuine-held belief "pandering"? Does the OOP, a single person expressing this personal view rise to the level of "at all times"? If you personally don't want non-neutral acceptance in your life as a gay man, that's your choice.
Idk what you were expecting.
Sharing an anecdote about trans people in a trans community is not pandering. Your comment was likely deleted because you were all lives mattering the whole thing. If this isn't a troll, maybe take some time to consider why your comment wasn't welcome instead of just simmering and complaining that it wasn't.
That is not what I said. And your strawman is worthless. I guess the mod brought their army to brigade me. This is quite hilarious actually.
Ah yes, the old "other people are siding with someone I disagree with so clearly they're biased and I shouldn't consider their words at all"!
Better than twisting someone's argument because you don't have a point to stand on.
don’t, just don’t waste energy with mods.
I’ve lost an account because I stated an opinion that was against the herd.
This is how moderation is on lemmy, one herd opinion, if yours is different you get banned
I’ve lost an account because I stated an opinion that was against the herd.
Ofc no mention of the "opinion" in question.
Do communites based on specific sociocultural groups not meant for general Lemmings have the right to set rules amongst themselves?
I want to pose the idea that there are forums better suited for discussion/debate on the philosophy of gender and its adjacent politics that are not c/transfem.
it’s not about that, it’s about freedom of speech, which clearly doesn’t exist on Lemmy
To be clear, it explicitly doesn't exist on blahaj lemmy instances and their communities. We put the safety and needs of trans and gender diverse folk first and foremost. If someone does a transphobia, however civil and legal, it's going to get removed from blahaj communities, free speech or not, because protecting the needs of trans folk is a higher priority for us than protecting the ability for people to harass trans folk.
understood, thank you for emphasizing that
Must it? I value Freedom of Speech and the First Amendment. I also value organizations creating rules to keep things on-topic and safe. I think this duality can be understood by the Nazi bar maxim, involving bartenders who kick out a patron with a swastika patch on their jacket. It's a delicate balance, free speech and effective community organization, but an important one. Free speech is important and should be protected to the maximum extent possible while preserving safety, but absolute free speech not worth setting the groundwork of a second Halocaust over. Modern Germany knows this and enacts this balance via its laws.
To be honest, it sounds like 4chan or the Libertarian-moderated parts of Reddit might be a better place for you, based on your use case. And that's okay -- Lemmy isn't a desert island. You could also try establishing and moderating your own Lemmy community. I'm not sure how much traction you'd get based on our userbase, but you could give it a shot.
let’s just agree to disagree
let's just agree to disagree that I can say what I want with no consequences, that's my freedom, not yours
sure, if that’s your opinion, I respect it
Did you know!
MuH FrEeDum oF sPeEcH is an american thing.
So glad to live in a country where hate speech isn't legal 😌
go to bed kiddo, it’s too late for you at this time
So you didnt know that?
You have the freedom of speech. They're just not required to be your platform, or listen to it.
that’s fair
This is a community in the spirit of "Am I The Asshole" where people can post their own bans from lemmy or reddit or whatever and get some feedback from others whether the ban was justified or not.
Sometimes one just wants to be able to challenge the arguments some mod made and this could be the place for that.
All posts should follow this basic structure:
Expect to receive feedback about your posts, they might even be negative.
Make sure you follow this instance's code of conduct. In other words we won't allow bellyaching about being sanctioned for hate speech or bigotry.
YTPB matrix channel: For real-time discussions about bastards or to appeal mod actions in YPTB itself.
Some acronyms you might see.
Relevant comms