And the conservative base reads the article thusly:
Los Angeles
Oooh, strike one.
car wash
Ooooooooh, that sounds awful immigranty. Strike two!
Rafie Ollah Shouhed
Aaaand that's three, your humanity is OUTTA HERE!
Your woke propaganda like "citizen" and "business owner" have no power here!
Tax payer's money 💸
He won't win. You almost never win against the feds. The courts repeatedly ruled they're immune from almost any civil shot. Worth a try though.
The agent might not be ablento be geld personally liable, but 28 USC 1346(b)(1) and 48 USC 1983 have claims won against the government all the time. The problem is that the government steps in and takes the liability of the individual. This means that bad actors are never held to account as individuals.
well they're not immune from any shot...
When we say "changing hearts and minds" let's broaden what that means
I'm just chilling watching TV. How many millions can I get?
If ICE breaks into your home, bodyslams you to the ground, cusses you out, breaks your bones, puts a knee on your neck and kidnaps your neighbours you can sue them for $50M or whatever you want
Hey look at all the argument in this thread... between leftists!
I wonder if they planned that? 🤔
I mean we're seeing these videos everyday. A no kings protest 2 weeks from now isn't going to stop this. sternly worded letters won't stop this. there is one force we know if which can stop this.
Please no, if everyone stops believing in peaceful change the US is truly f*cked
The US is already truly fucked. Source; I currently live here and am doing everything I can to save up enough money to get the fuck outta here
if everyone stops believing in peaceful change, the only thing that will be fucked is shareholder profits ;)
Alternatively, if the US keeps pretending that peaceful challenge is or has been effective in stopping these goons, more people end up getting disappeared into concentration camps.
Convenient assumptions that allow you to wash your hands of responsibility do not for a very historical precedent make. Civil protest requires an tacit and consensual agreement to the rule of law and to the idea that 'courts' and 'rule of law' exist mean something extrinsic to the individual: these clowns don't believe that and are using the fact that you do against you.
This isn't a fucking star wars movie, this is real fucking life. Every person kidnapped of the streets is a life ruined and family destroyed. If your argument is that we can only use peaceful means but peaceful means arent effective, you are responsible for the outcomes if you remove alternative approaches from the table.
The right to resist, and yes, violently when necessary, against tyranny is an in-alienable human right.
But violence is not an easy solution that doesn't come with massive casualties of its own. A civil war would cause many deaths on both sides and should be the last resort and prevented if at all possible. I think there is still a possibility to undo the harm in a peaceful way but I have to admit those chances are decreasing.
But violence is not an easy solution
The right is already using widespread violence on several levels. To say ICE isn't violence is simply wrong, to say the numerous persecutions of people like judges, prosecutors and James Comey because Trump perceive them as opponents, to claim that isn't violence is also simply wrong. Attacks on politicians in their homes even killing family members is also clearly extreme violence. To arrest a judge for upholding the law in her own courtroom, is exactly the kind of violence that will pave the way for fill fledged fascist system in USA. To arrest a school administrator for protecting his pupils against unlawful practices by ICE is the same.
The failure to stop ICE among other things is leading USA directly to fascism. Why should the pain be on one side only?
So to say the left should refrain from even talking about violence at this point is a bit steep IMO.
It's more likely the left is like democrats in general, too little too late, as it is USA is steadily heading for a dictatorship.
Also to talk about resistance as if it means civil war is a slippery slope argument.
I didn't say ICE doesn't use violence
For fucks sake, you said it's wrong to use violence to stop ICE, meaning people should just accept the other side is using violence, but refrain from it themselves.
That's decidedly moronic, and how do you imagine you can defend that position from a moral standpoint?
You wrote:
if everyone stops believing in peaceful change the US is truly f*cked
If you think the left must remain peaceful, while the right is using widespread violence and wildly abusing any official power, there is only one way this ends, and that is with the right winning without a fight.
You are being naive and ahistorical. You want to support your argument? provide evidence. Because otherwise you are engaging in a dangerous fantasy, one that millions of others are also revelling in, while people are being violently kidnapped off the streets.
Consider that you may have been propagandized to believe that only "bad people" use violence. Look at every single kids movie, practically ever. It's always the same tropes thatgoos guys can't use the tools of their enemies, that good guys can never use violence, or if so can never engage in lethality.
The onus is on you to provide evidence that your suppositions around protest will be effective.
History shows a diametrically opposed view. History says that if you want to stop things like what are happening now, you need to resist early, fully, and by any means necessary. That in an illiberal system, protests will be ignored. And at by allowing things to become worse and further entrenched, a practical civil resistance becomes impossible when people keep thinking the institutions will save them.
If the right thinks the left is not willing to fight for democracy USA is even more fucked.
If only the left is fighting for democracy we are well and truly fucked.
So do you believe this 79 year old used violence and this was the result? My guess was he tried to be peaceful and naive, like you, and guess what? ICE laughed because they got an easy target.
You are also in these comments saying people can't provide an example of violence being used to stop fascism. Guess whatever passed for a school where you're from didn't teach you about allied forces spending years successfully beating back fascism. To be fair it was a very little known movement called World War Two. People like you not being taught what that sacrifice meant are the reason we are here.
Violence is a tool. It is neither good or bad. Looking at one group using violence to terrorize and harm innocents, and another group using it against THOSE people to stop it, and saying they're both equally bad is so incredibly absurd that it is obvious you are not arguing in good faith and instead siding with the first group but pretending to be neutral.
Great. While we peacefully beg for our humanity, they can continue to violently brutalize and oppress us! This surely will work.
Since ice is made up of molon labe guys, they should be fully supportive.
The molon lave guys seem to ignore the part where the Spartans did, in fact, find out
I hate the idea that ICE and LEO can commit these types of abuses and then the cost of lawsuits is borne by taxpayers broadly. Seems like it would be more impactful if liability was on the officer (through professional insurance) and the agencies that employee them.
That's why there's been a movement for years to end Qualified Immunity and force Police to carry their own insurance like Doctors do. As long as Police face no serious consequences for breaking the Law, they'll continue to be vicious thugs.
I made this same comment before I read yours. So 100% agree.
End qualified immunity and have the lawsuit money come out or the cops pension money and I'm sure it would change right quick.
That's why ICE agents cover the faces. you can't really know if they are even real agents
There will be no liability. The feds are almost always exempt from it.
That's probably true. Most successful civil suits I know about are local/city police.
I believe it would be best if it is split. $100,000 per incident by the U.S. government, $1,000,000 by the agents involved. Bankruptcy not being able to get rid of it. That's before there should be criminal implications.
No matter how much hate ICE is getting, it is not enough
Claims? There's a video.
Legalese
Cowardly journalism
Fuck lawyers, too
Ice came to chicago to learn how to put a government in debt from lawsuits due to law enforcement behavior.
Best I can do is the rest of your life in an El Salvadoran concentration camp.
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