So do you believe this 79 year old used violence and this was the result?

No.

You are also in these comments saying people can't provide an example of violence being used to stop fascism.

Not at all. Violence can stop fascism. The allies defeating Nazi Germany proved that. But that is a really dark scenario that makes things go south before they become better. That took a war, and all I'm saying is that should be prevented when possible. It's the last resort. I also said violence can backfire, which I truly believe.

Edit: to support that last claim I mentioned the fire of the reichstag and the prelude to the kristallnacht

I don't think fighting ICE is going to get rid of the problem before causing a civil war. And I also think that civil war is still preventable through peaceful means.

I mean I shouldn't need to cite it. Its literally history, and if you don't know these things, maybe you shouldn't be in this conversation

Come now, that's a double standard. My examples are also litterally history.

You link a generic wikipedia article. That's fine, but could you be a bit more specific? How does it support your position?

That doesn't support your argument. If anything it undermines it. By not resisting earlier, and more fully and more directly, Jews and Communists became victims of the Nazis.

I think it does support my argument. Here you make an argument to resist early, which I agree with. Not to resist violently.

The fire of the Reichstag was blamed on a communist and the Nazi's used it to their advantage. They used an emergency law to effectively get rid of the democracy.

The murder of Ernst vom Rath was used to vilify jews and stage the Kristallnacht.

These were acts of violence that the Nazi's used to their advantage. Violence can backfire like that. Whether it was really their opponents doesn't matter, what matters is that they can blame them. And if it really is their opponents, great. Then it's easy to blame them.

And to clarify, I do think that a point can be reached that violence does become justified and the only option left. I just don't think the US has reached that point quite yet.

I didn't say ICE doesn't use violence

You are being naive and ahistorical. You want to support your argument? provide evidence.

How is that reasonable when you haven't done so to support your own claims and position?

Anyway, I can come up with an example. The Nazi's used violence of jews and political enemies (real and fake) to increase their grip on Germany. They used it to enrage their supporters and poison the public opinion against their opponents. The fire of the Reichstag and Kristallnacht come to mind.

But violence is not an easy solution that doesn't come with massive casualties of its own. A civil war would cause many deaths on both sides and should be the last resort and prevented if at all possible. I think there is still a possibility to undo the harm in a peaceful way but I have to admit those chances are decreasing.

Please no, if everyone stops believing in peaceful change the US is truly f*cked

We can :) But, we probably won't :(

That's really ignorant, police is not at all the same everywhere

Yeah this is why I don’t get the selfhosting communities dislike of cloudflare.

There’s the chance they turn on us in the future, but for now they seem pretty reliable. Now if it’s a dislike of centralization to a single company? I can understand that.

I think that's exactly what people are concerned about. Any company that turns into a monopoly should be looked at with suspicion.

My condolences

Too bad God didn't consider he could just walk upstairs