They are still being being painted by hand. On a graphics tablet, for example.
Exactly, it's not the medium. It's like saying movies like Up aren't beautiful because of CG.
Yep.
Those older movies are beautiful achievements for sure. But it's disingenuous to say that there isn't a plethora of movies and shows today that rival and surpass those older examples visually. Not to speak of just how much more fluent animation has become.
Many of the people who worked on those older masterpieces are still in animation today, and have only become better at their art.
The older movies are more atractive because of the flaws, you see the pencil strokes changing between frames. Today IMO they are too flawless.
That's actually a really good point. The flaws make the beauty more human the same way music recorded reel to reel back in the 70s was very human because of the limitations of the day. And it is beautiful.
Not that a flawless thing can't be beautiful. I just have a bias towards the humanness (pencil strokes, tape flutter) of the older stuff because that's what I grew up with.
I also like how when a kid was a voice actor, they sounded like a damn kid, mistakes and all.
The Aristocats comes to mind, the song Scales and Arpeggios is a great example. I hate hearing weird robotic kids who are flawless or its clear they edited the shit out of a dozen takes.
I don't think it actually looks very good. The computer generated look is pretty fugly. Story is a different matte
Yeah, Up was a weird example for me, too, but as someone who has watched Moana two dozen times, it's always beautiful. The people are aged, with deep lines, the sand and the water and the straw, all the textures, all beautiful, and the setting is of course gorgeous.
Lilo and Stitch is a similar background, also so so beautiful, but it doesn't make Moana ugly or useless in comparison.
It's not the same. Of course things can be beautiful if painted on a tablet, but differently beautiful.
I guess it's a matter of taste then. I really enjoy the vibrancy and fluidity of animation we get today. And I find them to be no less expressive.
Studio Ghibli stuff has, up until recently, always been done by hand and it's about as vibrant and fluid as it gets.
It is a matter of taste, I agree.
Interestingly enough, 101 Dalmatians was the first Disney film to adopt the process of Xeroxing the animators' drawings directly to cels, rather than hand-tracing them. It's still a beautiful movie of course, but it's also an advance in animation technology that often gets over-looked!
Thanks. Fascinating read. However...
The character Roger Radcliffe in Dalmatians was entirely outlined in black
This is not true, as you can see in their provided still. Some internal "outlines" are not in black, especially his hat and shoes (hard to tell with his jacket whether dark brown or black). It is similar to their Sleeping Beauty (supposedly) counter-exanple.
My kid got into Lady and the Tramp, so I watched it about a dozen times in a row, and Holeee shiiit is that thing beautifully animated. The backgrounds are needlessly lavish, and look at this...
I'm in awe of the work done on Tramp's ears. The expressiveness, and the subtle balance of flexibility and internal structure is exquisite. You can find other examples of masterfully-done materials all throughout the movie.
Other movies might get more attention, but Lady and the Tramp is worth looking at for some peak Disney animation.
It's one of my favourites!
I am not a big fan of Pinocchio in general, but the animation is absolutely nuts. The part with the whale is truly remarkable.
So how many frames is this, do we think, just for this clip...
24fps, nearly 3 seconds long, so somewhere near 72 frames total, BUT... these animations were done on 2's - meaning every other frame. https://businessofanimation.com/why-animation-studios-are-animating-on-2s/
I totally agree, Disney’s Robin Hood from 1973 is peak hand-drawn cartoon
Actual, handmade art and films are why so many of us look back on the 80's nostalgically, whether it's the Muppets, or Freddy's handmade makeup and practical effects, or the Goonies' crew building a whole-ass pirate ship on a soundstage. Practical effects will always be 100% better than CGI or some crap spat out by an LLM.
The reason why so many people look on the 80s nostalgically is because they were children or teens during the 80s.
And had virtually no responsibility, with tons of free time, and friends, and play.
This was 1961 which is definitely not the ‘80s. However, I get your point; practical effects may have been — and were often — jank, but it was real and tangible and I loved it, warts and all.
My theory is that since practical effects ultimately rely on physics of the world we occupy, that despite their unpolished look, they feel more real. The hyper realistic, but completely reality breaking effects of today just hit the same way cartoons do.
Speaking of cartoons, I love finding the shortcuts that animators would take, there’s something so artistic about how they did it.
I am just so much more engaged when I can watch a movie while also trying to figure out how they pulled off an effect.
Facts, it's why the thing is still my favorite horror movie.
Fun fact: 101 Dalmatians was the first Disney movie to be produced with the help of xerox. This was as a result of the financial flop that was Sleeping Beauty, that almost bankrupted the company and cut their budgets for future movies all the way from the 60s to the financial success of the little mermaid in 1989. This is why Disney movies within that time period has a rougher look when it comes to the characters' lineart and the more simple backgrounds compared to the very detailed, painted backgrounds and colored lineart of all Disney movies up until 101 Dalmatians.
The xerox was a cost cutting method to save time and money and while it absolutely killed Walt Disney to have to compromise on the art, it also paved the way for a new look and feel that, especially in the case of 101 Dalmatians, created a timeless look that still looks as fresh and modern today as the day it was made.
Without the invention and utilization of the xerox, there most likely would have been no Disney company today.
I just recently rewatched 101 Dalmatians and actually cried multiple times just from really soaking it in. Just the way so much of it comes to life. The imperfections genuinely make it feel so much more alive.
Modern Hollywood animation is incredibly sterile and perfected. A major studio now would never imagine releasing something with visible sketch lines.
Sure it wasn't nostalgia? Sounds like the same symptoms
I don’t think so. I’ve been watching a lot of classics from my childhood lately and most of them weren’t hitting me that hard. Maybe it’s that the actual story and the horror of it sunk in properly for the first time as an adult. Hadn’t seen it since I was young. The voice acting from the pups is just incredible. That probably didn’t help.
yeap
Same with the OG Lilo and Stitch:
IIRC last film to use honest to god water colors. And it shows.
Careful, there’s a lot of “artists” around lemmy that will get incredibly upset about this.
I think animation, when the animators care, has improved. Yes treasure planet looks better fight me. But I think the problem is that there is more shit animation now, and we have forgotten the shit animation of the past.
I’m sorry to say that a AI could recreate that look in a flash. And within 5 years you could have a completely consistent, feature length film done in that look.
Let’s not minimize the threat. If we want to avoid being replaced by computers, it’s now the fight has to be had.
Yeah I feel old too.
That behind said, I don't think a modern drawing tool is inherently less capable than an older one to produce magic. Digital painting used to have limitations in comparison with traditional technics, but a good 2d illustrator can do gorgeous drawings with a tablet nowadays.
When I see magic in animated movies, its when people do things by love and passions, and not for seeking additional profit. Flow and Arcane are examples of animation with such ingredients.
The only counter argument would probably be something like Flow. But what Zilbalodis did was perhaps as handcrafted as 3D animation can get.
the opening to beauty and the beast remains my favourite piece of animation ever <3
Beauty and the Beast features computer animation, by the way. I think it's only in the ballroom scene though.
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