Gaming on Linux hasn't been great so far... | JayzTwoCents [27:59] : linux

[-] grue@lemmy.world 104 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

The other two main TL;DWs are that:

He justifiably complained about PVP games having non-Linux-compatible kernel-level anti-cheat.
His benchmark testing showed a big performance difference between Windows and Linux on his system, which has an AMD Radeon 7900 XTX. Being an admitted noob, he didn't notice that it was an unusual discrepancy and figured that worse gaming performance in Linux was "real," but a bunch of folks in the comments are telling him that RDNA 3 drivers have a known issue that means the card probably isn't running at full power and tweaking the settings can probably fix it.

[-] noobdoomguy8658@feddit.org 44 points 2 months ago

He justifiably complained about PVP games having non-Linux-compatible kernel-level anti-cheat.

I'm tired of people conflating gaming as a whole to extremely mainstream titles that fit into "online PVP with malware anti-cheat" such as Apex Legends, Valorant, and Battlefield, and then bashing Linux for "poor gaming experience".

Their experience with titles they enjoy is very valid, as valid as any other, but it's not the entirety of gaming and OS experience, at all. There's tons of games that run extremely well on Linux, even out of the box, no tinkering required, both on Nvidia and AMD hardware.

Grrr.

[-] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 11 points 2 months ago

Personally, I find the Linux incompatibility with games that want to do shit to the kernel a plus so I don't accidentally install one without realizing it comes with malware.

[-] Zikeji@programming.dev 39 points 2 months ago

To your first comment about incompatible anticheat - in must cases it's a conscious decision the publisher makes. Are We Anti-Cheat Yet it's a good resource. Personally I find my OS preventing me from being able to run a privacy invading rootkit to be a pro as well.

To the second comment, a good amount of games bench better on Linux, not sure what's going on with his system so I agree.

Definitely unfortunate to see a creator publishing content without first doing some research but that's more and my common nowadays.

[-] RobotZap10000@feddit.nl 28 points 2 months ago

This YouTuber in particular does indeed just frequently throw out statements without properly checking whether they are even true at all.

[-] BlueSquid0741@lemmy.sdf.org 12 points 2 months ago

It’s a big problem with this guy for sure, but also he’s usually pretty good at admitting when he’s wrong and calling himself out on it. I wonder if he’ll look into this again to get some clarity.

[-] million@lemmy.world 8 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I am kind of shocked about the 7900 xtx. I have the same GPU and I am getting good performance under Linux.

I did some just for fun benchmarking on Doom The Dark Ages last night and I expected Linux to be slightly slower due to the built in ray tracing but I actually got better avgs under Linux. The max frame rate was slightly higher under Windows but the lows were way better under Linux. Overall fairly close performance with a slight edge to Linux.

Maybe Bazzite is doing some magic here. What distro was he using?

Edit: I watched a bit of it, he is running Bazzite, no idea why he is seeing such crazy different numbers. I typically run Proton GE, and I assume he is running Proton Stable, so that would make a dent. People are mentioning low power mode in the comments, but I never have had any issue with that and my 7900 xtx. I haven't had to do anything weird or out of the ordinary.

I think it’s most likely due to me not playing the same games he is, Stalker 2 is basically the only he is playing that I have played in the past and I've haven't done a comparison of that game on Linux vs Windows.

[-] astrsk@fedia.io 8 points 2 months ago

Wait, I have a 7800x3D and 7900 XTX and feel like I’m getting exactly the performance I’d expect for 1440p gaming. What do I need to look into to see if I’m leaving performance on the table? I’m using Arch so latest rolling kernel drivers seem to be working fine based on my monitoring of card stats and “feel” when playing modern games. Since performance has been fine out of the box, I never suspected I could be missing something so it would be nice to verify one way or another.

[-] DeviantOvary@reddthat.com 6 points 2 months ago

This is what I had to do couple of years ago: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/drm/amd/-/issues/1500#note_1854170

It seems it has been fixed since.

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[-] july@leminal.space 61 points 2 months ago

average tech youtuber not knowing anything about tech

[-] grue@lemmy.world 42 points 2 months ago

Hey, at least he's up-front about it and didn't type in yes, do as I say! like Other Linus did.

[-] stephen01king@piefed.zip 13 points 2 months ago

Complaining about Linus doing things like an inexperienced user when that is the whole point of the test is pretty stupid, honestly.

I would expect someone who knows just enough to follow troubleshooting using the command line but not knowing how powerful it can be would do the exact same thing in his position.

[-] grue@lemmy.world 26 points 2 months ago

No. Doing things because you're inexperienced is one thing, but reading a very strongly-worded and scary message that explicitly told him that it was about to break his system and then doing it anyway is on another level entirely.

[-] A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world 11 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

As much as I fucking cant stand him, I have to say.. in that case, Most new users would do exactly what he did.

Computer users always get hit with big ominous warning messages that amount to nothing 99.9% of the time. IIRC the reason something happened that time wasnt because Linus ignored the warning message, but because of a known bug in that version of the distro that was known about and wasnt fixed in the installer for months, until the video came out, that caused the DE to be removed when uninstalling something else.. Which is just pants on head and should have been fixed long before the video came out.

Besides, and I say this as a non-technical non-sysadmin linux user.. the overwhelming amount of tech support for linux doesnt encourage knowing what commands do, it encourages copy and pasting.. because almost all the tech support solutions I've ever found basically amount to "if you have X problem, copy Y command into terminal to fix it" with no explanation on why it works, just that it (hopefully) does.

[-] grue@lemmy.world 8 points 2 months ago

Computer users always get hit with big ominous warning messages that amount to nothing 99.9% of the time.

This is yet another instance of blaming Linux for Windows' bad behavior.

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[-] rtxn@lemmy.world 24 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

As I recall, the prompt was particularly clear about what was about to happen, hence the extra yes, do as I say! response. Linus was either too stupid or too arrogant to realize that he was out of his depth and should consult someone with more experience.

Ignorance and stupidity are very different things. This wasn't a Chernobyl situation where the emergency scram button triggered a hidden flaw. This was a "PRESSING THIS BUTTON WILL IMMEDIATELY AND DEFINITIVELY NUKE, RUIN, DESTROY YOUR SYSTEM" situation.

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[-] who@feddit.org 52 points 2 months ago

Thank you for including the spoiler. This tech vlogger's irresponsible headline would normally have earned a downvote from me.

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[-] ISolox@lemmy.world 49 points 2 months ago

As someone who games on Fedora as my main OS, we need to stop pretending that Linux gaming is all sunshine and rainbows.

Yes, fuck Windows, and it probably did fuck his boot loader, but it doesn't invalidate his other poor experiences he had with the OS.

Hell, I don't think that even that was necessarily an invalid experience just because it was caused by Windows. Dual booting is a thing people have to do, especially if they want to play the games that just don't work on Linux. Even if you don't like the games personally, they are huge and a lot of people want to play them. Even my main Linux group dual booted recently to play the BF6 beta.

Being elitist and calling people stupid because they had a bad experience will do nothing but hurt Linux gaming. Instead of calling JayzTwoCents stupid because he dual booted for a valid reason, explain alternatives that he could have done to prevent the issue. If we want to grow as a community, we need to provide actual helpful feedback, not by being toxic.

[-] sibachian@lemmy.ml 17 points 2 months ago

The real problem is people refusing to learn a new workflow. Which is why anyone would need Windows and dualbooting. Yes you can't tun every software on Linux that you can on Windows and vise versa; which is the whole damn point. There is software which lets you do the same thing just in a different way - but no one wants to explore the option, if it doesn't look and work exactly the same, people run away.

I play on Linux. I can count on one hand what games won't launch. One of them was my main game and their decision to drop Linux off a cliff last year has just grown my hatred for them and Microsoft, which I think is a much healthier and normal response than to submissively bend-over backwards and rush to install Windows which is exactly what they were counting on like we're some kind of sheep; like all the dual booters out there licking boots.

[-] monkeyman512@lemmy.world 9 points 2 months ago

You know most people play games as a fun leisure activity. Telling them that they need to do a ton of work just to participate is going to be a hard sell except to a relatively small group of people. That is a large factor in why so many people buy consoles.

[-] folke_arbetsson@lemmy.world 11 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Not to be a contrarian, but this notion that what people need is a frictionless existence, and anything but. Could and should not be expected. Has already led us to a situation were the new generations, in the first time in history, are dumber an less technologically adept.

We need to change this idea. And start asking people to put in some effort.

[-] monkeyman512@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago

You have missed my point. People are already putting in effort at their jobs. When they do get time to relax they don't want to be required to do a second job.

If this was a car community you would be telling me that everyone needs to know how to do their own oil changes. If this was a baking community you would say everyone needs to make their own bread. A gardening community would say growing vegetables.

These can be valuable and rewarding skills, but just because it is important to you doesn't mean it should be required of everyone.

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[-] dontmindmehere@programming.dev 42 points 2 months ago

the idea that you can just jump to linux with zero research needs to go

no you can't have every game and program you're used to
no you can't translate windows or mac knowledge
yes you have to know what partitions, desktop environments, distros, and other bunch of terms mean
yes you may have to type terminal commands (no one complains about ipconfig when figuring out whether it's ISP or DNS problem)
yes there are a bunch of shit tutorials online with copy-paste commands that don't work

[-] monkeyman512@lemmy.world 14 points 2 months ago

I want to make sure I am understanding what you are intending to communicate correctly. At first I thought you were basically saying, "normies need to get good". But in reflection you could be attempting to say, "Linux advocates are communicating unrealistic expectations which lead normal people to frustration and disappointment." Or is your intent something else?

[-] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 12 points 2 months ago

I'm not OP, but I agree with the latter.

Go in expecting to need to learn some stuff, and you'll probably need to learn less than you expect. Set aside a couple hours for the setup process, you probably won't need it, but you might. Figure out where to go for help before you start. Leave yourself a backup plan in case you don't finish.

Linux is pretty easy to use these days, but it's a new thing and will take getting used to. Expect the worst and be pleasantly surprised when things work out.

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[-] Ronno@feddit.nl 6 points 2 months ago

Honestly, in that case, don't expect mass adoption. Simple as that.

If the idea is to keep Linux as a niche, then that's fine. But if you/the community want Linux to rival Windows/Mac, than these are the exact bullet points that must change.

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[-] sylveon 24 points 2 months ago

I’ve been gaming on Linux on both Deck and Desktop for a while now and I like it, but I also have to admit that it’s not without issues. Thanks to Steam and Proton, most games really do “just work”, but some, especially non-Steam games or related tools like launchers, plugin/mod managers can cause issues and may need more effort to get running, which can be difficult for people with little Linux experience. I also recognise that not everyone wants to have to deal with that and I think that’s fair. And I get the impression that many Linux gamers underestimate their own skills and how much the average non-tech person would have to learn to be able to have a similarly good experience.

Updates can also just break games. I’s happened to me with Trackmania when the stupid Ubisoft launcher suddenly wouldn’t work anymore, or Blizzard games like World of Warcraft and Starcraft 2, which started having graphical issues. Slay the Spire, after a patch, always launched on the wrong screen and refused to let me move it to the primary one.

Disclaimer: I’m on a non-gaming focused, but popular distro (Fedora).

[-] moody@lemmings.world 7 points 2 months ago

Slay the Spire in particular has a Linux native version. You shouldn't have any issues with that.

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[-] EldenLord@lemmy.world 21 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

channel name JayzTwoCents

look inside

tfw opinions aren‘t even worth a penny

[-] Malix@sopuli.xyz 19 points 2 months ago

It's not an unreasonable to think that a backup os is a good thing to have, even if in this case it's the one (most likely) being the reason Bazzite broke.

Now, I did listen to the video on my way to work, so I might have missed some details, but after checking the comments it seems like Jay's performance wasn't really where it should have been. Got to wonder if there's some funky gotcha with the gpu module or proton settings.

Also, does Bazzite default to xorg or wayland? I honestly have no idea.

[-] MudMan@fedia.io 7 points 2 months ago

It's Wayland only, I'm pretty sure.

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[-] MoonRaven@feddit.nl 17 points 2 months ago

I unsubbed from that channel. Every title is clickbait. I'm not going to watch a video that is like "this is a game changer", no idea what it's about, no idea if it's relevant.

[-] ToiletFlushShowerScream@lemmy.world 12 points 2 months ago

YouTuber desperate for those views concocts a story that will resonate with their viewers so they will watch his YouTube ads Then carefully crafts a video that happens to tell that preplanned story that confirms his viewers prejudices. YouTube makes gobs of money. YouTuber makes some too. This is not a Public Service Announcement. Every viewers time is wasted.

[-] Dequei@sopuli.xyz 12 points 2 months ago

I had a problem with dualbooting windows because i always have to shutdown it using shift+shutdown, because windows kidnaps my ssd and hdd.

[-] Bronzie@sh.itjust.works 8 points 2 months ago

Also had issues with dual booting until I removed the Linux drives when installing Windows to make sure the boot partition was created on a separate drive.
Zero issues since.

Biggest downside is Windows always rebooting after updates, and if I don't sit there, it boots back into Linux as it's the first option in Grub.

At least now I have the option to fire up Windows when I can't solve something in Mint.

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[-] Defaced@lemmy.world 11 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

People need to stop watching this clickbaiting asshole. No shit kernel anti cheat doesn't work in Linux, it's been a thing forever, that's never gonna change. Did he use mesa or amdgpu? RADV or proprietary? Wasn't that long ago that windows had similar problems. Not surprised the windows and Nvidia shill doesn't do basic research.

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[-] dreugeworst@lemmy.ml 9 points 2 months ago

I've been dual booting for ages without any windows-caused issues. is it windows 11 specifically that messes with dual booting or did I accidentally work around it by installing Linux to a separate ssd

[-] dustyData@lemmy.world 24 points 2 months ago

Different disk is fine. Same disk, Windows is a little colonialist ass and on every update will rewrite the boot partition, screwing up Linux.

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[-] dafta 10 points 2 months ago

Yeah, if you've got two EFI partitions on separate disks and one is for Windows while the other is for your Linux, you're good. Windows likes to reinstall its bootloader which sets it as the default and sometimes overwrites the Linux bootloader, but not if it's on a different EFI partition, then it doesn't "know" about it.

[+] Krompus@lemmy.world 7 points 2 months ago

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[-] Ronno@feddit.nl 8 points 2 months ago

How does that help anything? The channel is trying it out, a channel that is objectively more technically skilled than the average PC gamer. So if they can't make it work, or can't make it work seamlessly enough, then there is an issue. It reinforces the image that gaming on Linux is difficult, which frankly, it is.

[-] barryamelton@lemmy.world 7 points 2 months ago

His install is broken because Windows breaks the dual booting, and Microsoft has refused to fix it for a decade already..

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[-] iconic_admin@lemmy.world 7 points 2 months ago

I also dual boot, to separate physical drives, and the Ubuntu bootup process is constantly breaking. Every other restart I have to fix it so that it will boot. Having said that, gaming on windows was untenable. Every single game would crash between 1min and 30min, always with an nvlddmkm error code showing in the event viewer. Using a laptop rtx 4070. I tried absolutely everything to fix it. I even tried buying new ram sticks. Same error. I started to think something was wrong at the hardware level.

Since switching to Ubuntu, I haven’t had a single crash, playing every game on steam with maxed out graphics. It works perfectly. Also I’ve noticed that booting into windows sends cooling fans into overdrive while booting into Ubuntu is quiet as a mouse. Fuck windows, it’s basically spyware at this point and it doesn’t even work.

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[-] hornedfiend@discuss.tchncs.de 7 points 2 months ago

Another “Yes, do as I say” “techie”. I don’t understand why they don’t just stick to their windows and drop the act of even caring enough to use anything else. Thanks for highlighting another channel to avoid.

[-] Agility0971@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

What do you think the problem is? Grub is present so windows update cannot be the culprit on this one. Initramfs works, but the root partition is not found. Both the primary and fallback. A broken update sequence? Would be nice to get the logs

Edit: at 23:32 it says the logs have been generated at /run/initramfs/rdsosreport.txt and that the user can save it to /boot or usb stick. Since /boot was mounted successfully and grub was working, then the probably a broken update from bazzite.

[-] MudMan@fedia.io 6 points 2 months ago

I had Fedora bork up on me on each kernel update for a while and force me to rebuild... something. It's been a while, I forget what the underlying issue was.

People like to claim Windows updates are more problematic than Linux updates because they install without permission, but it's not really true. For one thing, Bazzite updates in the background just like Windows does (it just does it on user reboot as opposed to forcing a reboot).

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