Supporting Israel at any time was wrong. Israel is an invader.
100% agree.
but want to sprinkle a wee bit of nuance.
Israel had (and still has) a massive propaganda campaign.
given information available, it would be easy for most people to come up with a vague "both sides" issue, or "they are terrorists and Israel is doing what it can to protect civilians from jihadi islamists"... Unless someone tried digging a bit and learn for themselves.
However, after this latest phase of the genocide, everyone has seen dismembered babies, the endless humanitarian nightmares. and it wasn't hiding anywhere, everyone on practically every social media saw it.
After this genocide, the only way anyone could support Israel, is if they have serious deficiency in some basic human emotions.
Yep. Ignorance is normal, but this genocide has been so blatant, proud, prolonged and prominent in media and institutions (e.g. ICC) that for most people, ignorance is no longer a reasonable excuse.
Even in 850 BCE they were genociding the Canaanites.
Yes.
Or as I prefer to phrase it, anyone who can look at what Israel is doing in Gaza without feeling horror, pity and revulsion is a monster.
2025? I guess better late than never because no one in their right mind should ever support this violent ethno-nationalist exclusionary apartheid state.
Israel government is especially bad but i would like to extend this to pretty much any government around the world. The genocide in gaza is possible only thanks to the support and aid of other states.
If you're still supporting your government in 2025, there's something wrong with you as a person, you are most likely too selfish and don't care much about others.
No, no. This is on Israel and the USA. The states fighting the genocide are treated as pariah states by the USA, committing acts of war against them (Iran, Yemen, Syria). Other countries have full hands against the most moronic idea of a president of the USA ever, whether in reality or in fiction, trying to protect their people. At some extent European countries should be ashamed too of their role in this, but honestly, they are just vassals of the USA which is ultimately the only one who can stop this without risking a war against a superpower.
No. European countries and complicit Arab countries do not get a pass. The only government you should support are those that go directly against the genocide such as Yemen, Iran, Hezbollah.
Hell, I've been a huge China simp for years, but even Chinas "neutrality", even while leaning towards support for Iran, tows the line for me. European countries aren't even neutral.
"We have to support a genocide because....cheeto?" Isn't an excuse, especially when they supported the genocide the same way under Biden.
The only government you should support are those that go directly against the genocide such as Yemen, Iran, Hezbollah.
Can we simply agree that there's no good government out there? You don't have to support one of them, support the people.
I think the USA is finally loosing strength and change is coming, but still no one wants to mess with them. The two or three countries that may have a chance against them, are not fond of this idea. No one real is willing to stop Israel right now, because it is in fact a protectorate of the USA, but that doesn't mean they support the genocide. Time is a luxury as well as a necessity right now.
Other countries have full hands against the most moronic idea of a president of the USA ever, whether in reality or in fiction, trying to protect their people.
Funny how that translates to the same exact pro-genocide stance they had under Biden.
At some extent European countries should be ashamed too of their role in this, but honestly, they are just vassals of the USA
So they're just following orders?
I know the genocide can be stopped by the USA, any other country may or may not.
They certainly can stop supporting it
Sure they can. It's not like the USA gives two fucks, anyway, like they have been doing for decades against Cuba, always supported by their little racist experiment.
Special mention for the UK and germany, who are straight up making bank off this
100% this. it's a pill many people still don't want to swallow. how you could deny there's a genocide and Israel is a bad actor is beyond me. there's literal children who know better
Not after the IDF gets to them...
Not gonna lie, I feel like 2025 is way too generous. The only reason so many people are suddenly opposing Israel is because the overturn window has shifted and it is no longer popular to support Israel.
Or it might have something to do with the fact they are shooting starving unarmed civilians standing in line for bread, shooting starving unarmed civilians with fucking tanks
USA and their puppets murdered millions directly and dozens, perhaps hundreds of millions indirectly since WW2. But they also control the biggest propaganda apparatus in history which specialty is manufacturing consent for all those atrocities. The case of current phase of Palestinian genocide is the first example the apparatus failed, and it can be felt since it still hold for all other atrocities perpetrated by US.
Hell, even in this thread in generally left leaning instance we still have people defending and relativising even this genocide and its direct perpetrators.
Yes, 100%. People supporting genocidal maniacs have no ethics whatsoever.
Is it still auntiesemitic to say death to israel now
There are millions of people who live in Israel who aren't on board with their government's slaughter of innocents. We should be talking about stopping them, sanctioning them even. But calling for death is no better than the people egging on their genocidal policies towards Palestinians.
So, yes. It is 100% antisemitic to say "death to Israel". It's not antisemitic to say, "we must stop Israel and restore peace".
They're not calling for more human deaths, they're calling for the death of the STATE of Israel. If a government is perpetuating genocide it is certainly reasonable to wish for the dismantling of that government entity.
I mean sure, but they always had the option of using language that doesn't contain that ambiguity.
Fuck your language, they've been slaughtering babies for two years. Death to the genocidal state, death to the IDF, death to apartheid. From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free!
And you "always had the option" of being culturally sensitive @skisnow
I gather that "death to" comes about in translation to English from Arabic/Islamic cultures.
A state or organisation is not alive. It can't "die". The "death" therefore must be figurative. "Death to America" is not the same as "Death to Americans", for example. "Death to Israel" and "Death to the IDF" are not calls to harm a living being.
https://mondoweiss.net/2023/11/are-israelis-jews-returning-to-jewish-minority-life/
@pete_link
@AlHouthi4President
@buddascrayon
@gallopingsnail
@palestine@a.gup.pe
@palestine@lemmy.ml
#CrimesAgainstHumanity
#genocide
#Palestine
#Israel
#Gaza
“Death to America” is not the same as “Death to Americans”, for example
And it's a terrible example, because it also has been used before now by supporters of terrorist attacks on US civilians.
If you're determined to take offence @skisnow then I guess nobody can stop you.
I'm not taking offense, I'm just saying that if you use inflammatory phrasing you can't turn around and surprised pikachu face when some people take it the "wrong" way.
Maybe i don't care about the feelings of genociders. You don't waste time arguing with pedophiles about the virtue of raping kids.
You use violence
Such intolerance is much of the problem @skisnow
Reacting within our narrow framework, neglecting to account for the vagaries of translation.
@palestine
LOL
"Peace"
77 years of "peaceful" extermination displacement and genocide
You're not wrong, regardless of what ultimately happens the Palestinian people need to be protected but I stand by my initial statement.
'millions' is BS
The protesters just are against Netanyahu for internal selfish reasons.
They don't give a fuck about Palestinians.
Like the rat Sanders always talking specifically about 'the Netanyahu government' as the culprit.
Creating the ilusion that after he's gone it will be a democracy again to be supported while they always have been murderous scum.
And “death to Israel” is not antisemitic.
The illegal state shouldn't exist, so it should definitely die.
Conflating shitrael with all jews is OC the tired and obvious cheap hasbara trick. Nice try tho.
DEATH TO ISRAEL!!
Millions of people? Where in Israel?. Death to Israel!!!
Westerners need to realize that this also extents to the countries that support Israel. If you still support the USA, or the UK, or Germany, there is as much something wrong with you as a person as any Israel supporter.
Lol you think the West has just become the baddies?
war crime charges, when please?
Well, they exist. TBF, the USA also has a president with a pending conviction or something seemingly irrelevant like justice.
Good start, but I want Biden 's lying genociding arse sharing a cell with cheeto.
Don't make these sweeping generalizations!
Just because I don't support Israel doesn't mean there isn't something wrong with me as a person! /s
I mean, there's definitely something wrong with me as a person. But it's not because I don't support Israel!
What 2025?
This monstrosity should've never been created.
Netanyahu must be stopped. And Israel supporters too. Maybe the UK should take all Israelis people and give back the land tho its rightful owners… free Palestine!
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