218
submitted 1 year ago by jeffw@lemmy.world to c/politics@lemmy.world

Nine months after Kenneth Smith’s botched lethal injection, state attorney general has asked for approval to kill him with nitrogen

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[-] derf82@lemmy.world 144 points 1 year ago

Cruel? Nitrogen asphyxiation is probably one of the most painless, gentle ways to go.

Your trigger that you can’t breathe is a buildup of carbon dioxide. But as you can still exhale, you feel no panic. You just slowly drift unconscious and die. I’d take it over most causes of death.

[-] dmonzel@lemmy.world 55 points 1 year ago

Execution is cruel, regardless of method.

[-] derf82@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago

You know what else is cruel? People killing other people. And the former continuing to live despite their cruelty.

The only rub against execution to me is the risk of executing the innocent. But that is not the concern here. There is no dispute this guy is guilty.

[-] GiddyGap@lemm.ee 21 points 1 year ago

Capital punishment is government sanctioned killing. Outside of war, the government should not have the power to kill anyone.

Let them rot in prison. It's cheaper anyway.

Abolish capital punishment.

load more comments (17 replies)

The only rub against execution to me is the risk of executing the innocent.

Right, so why is that not a total disqualifier then? Even if the risk is fleeting small, there is no taking it back. If it came out later on, dead is dead. Combining that with the fact that executions are obv a psychological cluster fuck for everyone who deals with it, especially the one executed, and the fact that it takes a lot of resources every trial because it's such an unusually cruel punishment, the arguments for it are dwindling.

Also

You know what else is cruel? People killing other people.

Right but we're not voting someone in office who can eliminate all homicides in the United States. Things are different for execution.

We could also talk about how this "well tough shit" opinion always fucks over positive and healthy change, but that's probably the least impactful argument for the folks who still bank on executions as some sort of greater good.

load more comments (6 replies)
[-] FooBarrington@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago

You know what else is cruel? People killing other people.

Then why aren't you advocating for executing those that execute killers? After all, they kill people. But I'm going to assume that you think those killers are okay.

load more comments (7 replies)
[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

Doesn't 'people killing other people' include the state killing people? I don't see how vengeance for a murder solves anything.

load more comments (16 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[-] neuropean@kbin.social 29 points 1 year ago

Exactly, the headline is just trying to get people to react.

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] Hyperreality@kbin.social 20 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

There's a BBC documentary about it, I think this one:

How to Kill a Human Being

It's been a long time since I watched it, but I think the inert gas route is very pleasant. He even gets slightly high/happy from it.

Key takeaways:

  • there are surprisingly easy ways to kill people humanely.
  • many in the US doesn't want to kill prisoners humanely, they want it to hurt and be a punishment, not die in a euphoric high

edit: found it:

https://www.documentarytube.com/videos/how-to-kill-a-human-being-2/

Rendered unconcious within 15 seconds, dead within a minute.

In testing pigs would happily stick their heads in a space with pure nitrogen and munch on apples till they lost consciousness, fell over, then stick their heads back in the space with nitrogen to eat some more apples.

[-] czarrie@lemm.ee 8 points 1 year ago

What kind of apples asking for a friend

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[-] squiblet@kbin.social 8 points 1 year ago

Yeah, compared to injecting horrifically painful substances, I don't see why this is controversial.

[-] CrayonRosary@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

It's even better than that. Hypoxia causes feelings of euphoria! You get high, pass out, and die. It's the best way to go, IMO.

[-] Fedizen@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

I'd take a firing squad or an enormous hydraulic press tbh. If I were to be an innocent stuck with a death penalty I'd be happy to know somebody will have to clean up a messy pile of guts after my quick death.

The whole point of using gas or chemicals for the death isnt to make the punishment humane - the death penalty is not humane in any way - its to make it easier on the people doing the killing. No mess, no fuss.

load more comments (6 replies)
load more comments (3 replies)
[-] jpj007@kbin.social 61 points 1 year ago

First off, I am against the death penalty. I suppose there are hypothetical scenarios were there may be some remorseless person who committed horrific crimes and for whom there is absolutely no doubt of guilt, and maybe then we can justify removing them from the world permanently. But in the real world, the death penalty is not limited to such scenarios. Innocents have been and continue to be executed. This is unacceptable.

But, if we aren't going to eliminate it, at the very least we can avoid unneeded suffering during it. As I understand it, nitrogen asphyxiation is a comparatively peaceful way to go. So this headline smells of bullshit to me.

[-] PostmodernPythia@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago

It’s experimental. No institutional review board in the country could ethically ask this guy to volunteer for such an experiment, simply because of the coercive power dynamics inherent in asking such a thing of a prisoner. But the government can, by fiat, decide to experiment on him, and you’re ok with that? Even if “nitrogen asphyxiation is a comparatively peaceful way to go,” human medical experimentation qualifies as cruel and unusual punishment; otherwise, what’s the point of banning cruel and unusual punishment?

[-] Skyrmir@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago

The only experiment is doing it to humans. It's used to kill chickens by the thousands. Because it causes them less stress, leading to better tasting meat.

load more comments (7 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[-] meco03211@lemmy.world 33 points 1 year ago

It says the method is rejected even by vets. But it only says the nitrogen atmosphere can induce a stressful environment "in some species". Do these other species have stress triggers when low on oxygen? Is there any further explanation?

It also mentioned this method has been adopted by 3 states. Have there been any successful attempts?

I'm against the death penalty but that's no excuse to skimp on reporting. Those seem like obvious questions that would have easily found answers. That they aren't in the article, begs the question if they were asked, answered, and excluded? Or just not asked?

[-] Talaraine@kbin.social 28 points 1 year ago

Yes, there are other species that react negatively to hypoxic environments:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inert_gas_asphyxiation

But the idea with using it on humans is that we don't react negatively. We don't even feel like we're suffocating, like with excessive CO2. Nitrogen is plentiful and is already being used for legal suicide elsewhere, which is why they're wanting to use it.

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] NotBadAndYou@ttrpg.network 28 points 1 year ago

Didn't he ask for that method himself? I'm sure he doesn't want to try injection again.

[-] Fedizen@lemmy.world 27 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I hate the death penalty - its barbaric, it kills innocent people etc.

But if people are going to do it I can think of no better metaphor for a state sanctioned death penalty than an enourmous hydraulic press.

All these injections and ethical guidelines are misguided. The cruelty is the point so they might as well just make it quick and lean into it.

[-] GentlemanLoser@ttrpg.network 7 points 1 year ago

"Crushed by the weight of the system."

Maybe "torn apart by the gears of justice?"

I'm pro-death penalty in theory but against it in practice. There's definitely some people who forfeit their right to exist with the rest of us. But we can never apply it fairly or even guarantee we aren't executing actually innocent people. And the ugliness and evil of that is more than enough to make me against capital punishment.

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] aidan@lemmy.world 24 points 1 year ago

It's not much of a guinea pig if you're just asphyxiating him, its pretty understood how that kills people. By the logic of calling him a guinea pig does that mean anytime anything is done to someone for the first time they're a guinea pig?

load more comments (2 replies)
[-] Chickenstalker@lemmy.world 23 points 1 year ago

If you botched an execution, then the convict should be commuted to life sentence or even pardoned if they suffered greatly. In addition, the people who botched it should be put on trial for malpractice and fined/jailed.

[-] aeternum@kbin.social 24 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The executions aren't done by doctors, as that goes against their hypocratic oath. It's not even done by nurses in a lot of cases. They're done by people who have barely any training. Botched executions are a dime a dozen because of this.

To be clear, I am against all forms of capital punishment. It's barbaric and has no place in 2023.

[-] echodot@feddit.uk 17 points 1 year ago

It's barbaric and has no place in 2023.

You need to account for the time zone difference between Alabama and the rest of the world. It's about UTC -50 years

[-] Gregers@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

Probably stored their date in a signed 16-bit integer

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (5 replies)
[-] Cheekyw443@discuss.online 13 points 1 year ago

The process of putting someone to death is already traumatic to the guards that have to make it happen. It makes them question whether they can find salvation - even though their job made them do it.

Now you’re asking them to experiment on people? At the very least let’s use surefire methods & people who are already murderers for this profession

[-] nick@campfyre.nickwebster.dev 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

wtf the attempted murderers tried to execute him last time even after a judge put a stay on the order???

That's nightmarish. Although all execution is nightmarish. One day the judges involved with these crimes against humanity will hopefully face justice.

[-] autotldr@lemmings.world 6 points 1 year ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:


Kenneth Smith is one of two living Americans who can describe what it is like to survive an execution, having endured an aborted lethal injection last November during which he was subjected to excruciating pain tantamount, his lawyers claim, to torture.

If the state of Alabama has its way, he will become the test dummy for an execution method that has never before been used in judicial killings and which veterinarians consider unacceptable as a form of euthanasia for animals – death by nitrogen gas.

The choice of Smith as the first candidate for the technique, less than a year after he experienced a failed execution, has also been criticized as a double violation of the eighth amendment protection against “cruel and unusual punishments”.

Earlier that year, the state took more than three hours to kill Joe Nathan James and later abandoned the execution of Alan Miller after also failing to find a vein.

“The mask will be placed and adjusted on the condemned inmate’s face”, it says, and then after the prisoner has been allowed to make a final statement “the Warden will activate the nitrogen hypoxia system”.

Like many death penalty states, Oklahoma was looking for an alternative to lethal injection, having struggled to procure the necessary drugs as a result of an international boycott by pharmaceutical companies.


The original article contains 1,116 words, the summary contains 220 words. Saved 80%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

load more comments
view more: next ›
this post was submitted on 02 Sep 2023
218 points (100.0% liked)

politics

19233 readers
2092 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS