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[-] RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 91 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Y’all really should consider reading this.

https://newenglandhistoricalsociety.com/the-story-of-the-boston-tea-party-in-myth-and-reality/

It’s way more complicated than the reductionist 5th grade level story taught in US schools that everyone settles on being reality. Right up there with George Washington’s cherry tree story (didn’t happen) or the pilgrims landing at Plymouth Rock (no, they didn’t land there).

The Boston Tea Party was about money, and about people with money being upset that other people with money were undercutting their profits, so they destroyed some really expensive goods in a way that disastrously hurt their own local business owners and not the people they claimed to be trying to hurt.

I’m sure parallels could be made between one of the US’s founding stories being about rich people manipulating the populace into war and today, where rich people are still manipulating people into fighting each other or whomever else.

[-] stopdropandprole@lemmy.world 25 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

it actually does hint that perhaps the path to overthrowing Trumpism is to radicalize the merchant class (aka petit bourgeoisie) against his agendas and force direct action. it's not so far fetched. for instance, Patriotic Millionaires. <- links to a short article about their plan to reduce inequality by taxing wealth

the rich are not a monolith. they each have their own special interests. there are many outside Trump's inner circle who depends on certain aspects of the economy being stable and profitable. maybe some of those angry multi-millionaites will switch loyalties now they see how bad Elonazi is for their bottom line?

[-] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works 15 points 1 month ago

Yep, I really don't understand how the wealthy in America think that trump will ever stand by his promises. They think that he will bow to them when he has the power to do otherwise? He's learning from putin and using his techniques to take down the wealthy.

I wouldn't be surprised if that was why he's doing the tariff thing in the first place. Take down Bezos, Apple, etc., so they have to bow to him. They're in his game and don't even know it.

To be clear, he's dumb, but he knows how to hire and listen to really smart, evil people.

[-] GreenKnight23@lemmy.world 12 points 1 month ago

Yep, I really don't understand how the wealthy in America think that trump will ever stand by his promises. They think that he will bow to them when he has the power to do otherwise? He's learning from putin and using his techniques to take down the wealthy.

they didn't trust him. they (wrongly) believed that they were powerful enough on their own to control him because they thought they were smarter than him.

they're all learning what we all learned his first term. it doesn't matter how smart, how powerful, how rich you are. Donald Trump is a hurricane of chaos, hate, ignorance, depravity, and egoism. they aided him in growing terminal velocity and now he's unstoppable by standard methods.

we need to wake up and realize that because he gained control through abnormal methods that it will take abnormal methods to restore balance and control.

[-] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works 9 points 1 month ago

they didn’t trust him. they (wrongly) believed that they were powerful enough on their own to control him because they thought they were smarter than him.

I agree, but I also think they need to fix the things they helped break. Let them sit in the stew they made and use those super brain cells to get them out of it.

we need to wake up and realize that because he gained control through abnormal methods that it will take abnormal methods to restore balance and control.

Dude, normal people can protest and that's about it. Don't get me wrong, protesting works but who knows if that's enough. But the wealthy control all of our data, the police and our utilities. The wealthy are the only ones that can fix this.

[-] Modern_medicine_isnt@lemmy.world 12 points 1 month ago

I think it is deeper. They didn't trust him per se. But they trusted he would screw things up royaly. They have deep pockets. They can weather the storm. The benefit for them is the regression of money to the people. And people who are less comfortable demanding more from companies. A lot of the wealthy are driven by a desire to do things without impediment. Elon is a classic example. He doesn't want regulations ot uppity employees slowing him down. Other wealthy are similar. So be resetting the regulations and the employee employer balance, they remove obstacles that slow them down from doing what they want to do. Overall, it was getting to hard for them to exploit the people and the planet. And they trusted trump to reset gains in those areas.

[-] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 month ago

I can't imagine Amazon thinking that a huge chunk of their business would be taken out by 145% tariffs. Yes, they can weather the storm, but he makes his employees pee in bottles. His bottom line is a major focus of his life.

[-] Modern_medicine_isnt@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago

Well sure, he probably didn't expect 145%. But he operated amazon at a loss for many years. And I think he has mainly gotten what he wanted already. So he can feel free to start pushing back now. And we are seeing signs of that.

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[-] SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org 12 points 1 month ago

Ahhh that sounds much more American. Thanks

[-] SippyCup@feddit.nl 5 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

In their defense they were drunk as fuck at the time. And were wearing racist costumes for some reason.

Obviously they weren't thinking clearly. Or much at all.

[-] klu9@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 month ago

It's OK now, they've changed their name to the Boston Commanders.

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[-] merc@sh.itjust.works 48 points 1 month ago

I hope that some people come out of this realizing that the US wasn't founded on deep idealistic principles, but mostly on greed.

What led to the Tea Party:

  1. British colonists in the Americas drank a lot of tea.
  2. Britain's government needed money to pay war debts, and decided one way to do that was to impose taxes on items in the Americas including tea.
  3. Some British people saw those taxes and decided it would be a good opportunity to make some money smuggling (think Al Capone during prohibition).
  4. The British government eliminated all the taxes except on tea, and stopped the East India Company having to pay duties, making EIC tea cheaper than the smuggled tea.
  5. The smugglers, upset at being undercut, dumped East India Company tea into Boston's Harbour.

The whole "no taxation without representation" bit was a less important concern than the government messing with their profits. In fact, I read somewhere (can't find the reference now) that the government tried to negotiate with the smuggler rebels, but the rebels weren't willing to meet because the "no taxation without representation" was more of a pretext than an actual reason.

The other important bit here is the reason the government needed to raise money. It had just been involved in a major war, which it had won. This is the 7-years war, a.k.a. the French and Indian wars. In those wars, they beat France, and as a result, took over most of France's territory in North America.

Look at the pink in this colonial map of the Americas. That's all territory gained by the British in that war.

Map of North American territory from 1672 to 1683 from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NorthAmerica1762-83.png

As a result of that war, the British settlement in the Americas was going to be able to expand from 13 colonies hugging the coast to an entire new area including the entire great lakes region, what's now Florida, the Gulf coast, the Saint Lawrence river, etc. All that was required was that Britain follow the terms of the Treaty of Paris / Royal Proclamation of 1763. In part, that war was fought on behalf of the colonists to remove the threat from the French and expand the territory of the colonies, so it makes sense that the beneficiaries of that war (the colonists) would help pay for it. But, some of the British colonists didn't want to pay for it. So, they rebelled and took the territory for themselves, ignoring the terms of the Treaty of Paris which gave some rights to the French and Indians who were in that newly acquired territory.

TL;DR: British colonists in the Americas who rebelled were greedy, not idealistic.

[-] shawn1122@lemm.ee 5 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

This is important and one part of many reasons why America became the superpower it is today.

America horded 80% of global gold reserves by selling weapons to allies while not engaging in WW2, benefiting from their geographic isolation from Europe and Asia.

Of course, establishing independence from colonial powers was an important first step and there is some credit to be given there (even if driven by greed).

But many Americans are told that their nation is rich because they are somehow better on a deeper, fundamental level. When the reality is, like many things in life, they were able to take advantage of an oppurtunity by being in the right place at the right time (and one can argue they should have engaged in WW2 sooner, instead of sitting on the sidelines).

This is part of the reason I find Jon Stewart to be quite knowledgeable but also at times nauseating. I have nothing against patriotism but he peddles American exceptionalism as a reason why the country should be better when it's perfectly reasonable to expect more from your country without a falsely representing its ascent.

[-] merc@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 month ago

The Post-WWII period is also responsible for a lot of the chaos today.

The US emerged from WWII with most of the worker protections from the New Deal in place. The income tax rates topped out at 90%. Unions were strong. Add to that that the US was the only major economy to come out of WWII unscathed and there was an obvious economic boom that, thanks to those New Deal policies, wasn't hoarded by the already wealthy.

That was the environment in which a (white, male) factory worker was able to own a house and support a large family with a stay-at-home wife. This is the world MAGA wants to return to. But, even if they got the labour protections that were a key element of that world (which of course the people they're electing are dead-set against) that worker's paradise isn't coming back without another disastrous world war in which the US gets to sit on the sidelines then reap the benefits when the war is over. Basically, their idea of that era is a fantasy, and it's never coming back, even if they actually voted for the side that wants to make incremental steps in that direction, rather than the one that wants to hoard even more wealth for the rich.

As someone who grew up in Canada, I'm also not going to give them any kudos for independence from the colonial powers. They did it out of greed and it gave them an opportunity to renege on deals made with the French colonists and Native American groups. I'm not going to claim that the English or French governments were good to, or fair with the natives. But, they did form alliances with them and sign treaties. Some of the treaties were even honoured, at least for a while. Rather than an outright genocide to kill them off, or march them across the continent, the approach taken by the British in what's now Canada was to try to forcibly "civilize" them. Thanks to racism, they thought that the natives were savages, and needed to be civilized, and they did all kinds of paternalistic things to destroy "savage" cultures and make the natives into fine, upstanding people who wore civilized clothing, spoke English, worshipped the correct god, had jobs, etc.

The American process was more "kill them off and take their land". If the British had remained in charge, there probably would have been no Trail of Tears etc. Basically, they split off from the colonial power because the colonial power wasn't brutal or racist enough for their tastes.

[-] shawn1122@lemm.ee 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I agree that America's origin story is filled with blood lust and greed. You don't come up with a concept like manifest destiny without a fuck you, everything is mine attitude.

The reality is they're never going to see that set of circumstances ever again. You don't get to be the world's preeminent super power and sit at the sidelines of a world war.

One can wonder if that unique set of circumstances (some of it based on pure luck) will ever happen again. That is, the new deal + rapid industrializing to become the world's leading weapons manufacturer + geographical isolation from a world war without being a primary target. If it does happen, it would be for another country.

The US profited immensely off of their allies by selling weapons and that doesnt even account for the massive brain drain of intellectuals / scientists moving to the US for safety during the war.

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[-] asg101 35 points 1 month ago

Taxes, "freedom", "liberty", "independence".... all these rallying calls were just dogwhistles the American oligarchs used to get the colonists to revolt against the British oligarchs, because they wanted to get rid of the competition. The long con is still going on, the US is and always has been owned and operated by the rich for the benefit of the rich. The mask is just slipping a bit now.

[-] vvilld@lemmy.dbzer0.com 33 points 1 month ago

It wasn't even that they wanted to pay higher taxes. The Stamp and Tea Acts actually LOWERED the taxes. But it was incredibly easy to get around paying the taxes previously. So what Parliament did was say, "guys, you have to actually start paying the taxes, but we'll make them lower as a compromise."

That's why the American elites revolted.

[-] throwawayacc0430@sh.itjust.works 27 points 1 month ago

Their oppressors didn't have tanks.

Our oppressors do.

There's no way out.

Unless...

Anyone down to steal a tank?

(For Legal Purposes, I'm talking about GTA6 😉)

[-] match@pawb.social 17 points 1 month ago

Ukraine's doing really well on drones vs tanks

[-] cuteness@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 month ago

There was a relatively recent report that stated you could DIY a fairly sophisticated “battle” drone for a few hundred dollars that has similar capabilities to the drones being used in Ukraine.

Maybe this is the real reason for the tariffs?

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[-] Modern_medicine_isnt@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago

Well... the colonies had "troops" much the same as the oppressors did. They won the troops to thier side. The modern day equivalent would be the national guard, and the state guard. The troops in the colonies technically answered to the king, just like the national guard. So you don't need to steal the tanks, just win the loyalty of the national guard in a few states to start. Then snowball.

[-] 0xD@infosec.pub 8 points 1 month ago

Fuck Rockstar, boycott GTA.

[-] throwawayacc0430@sh.itjust.works 19 points 1 month ago

Why boycott if I can just pirate it?

I get to enjoy it and they don't make any profit from it.

Heck, I'll seed it and cost them even more profit. 🏴‍☠️😎

[-] 0xD@infosec.pub 13 points 1 month ago
[-] explodicle@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 month ago

IMHO that's still contributing to its cultural success. People who can't pirate won't want to miss out.

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[-] Wilco@lemm.ee 6 points 1 month ago

If there was a revolution it would not come down to tanks.

Theoretically, an oligarchs house gets broken into and there is some bad stuff. Repeat.

The hardest part would be recruiting people to research and post locations and schedules.

[-] Modern_medicine_isnt@lemmy.world 5 points 1 month ago

There must be an app for that. Lol. We had private jet trackers for a while.

[-] Bartsbigbugbag@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 month ago

You can’t win a civil war by blowing up all of the infrastructure you rely upon, you do it with boots on the ground, building to building sweeps etc. now, that’s all if you can actually get a civil war going. It’s looking like people are going to sit around and let people get taken one by one.

[-] toastmeister@lemmy.ca 16 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

The US has never had free trade, look at the patent system they force other countries to abide by, whose length and terms are dictated by the US.

This is just a continuation of the same. Apple even had a patent on rounded corners on rectangles.

[-] MrBananaGrabber@lemmy.today 5 points 1 month ago

I reworded my response to this four times, but settled on this.

I guess this insane turn to fascism and cutting off all economic ties to the world might seem like a “normal progression” but I wouldn’t call swerving into oncoming traffic a normal progression. (He’s here we are I guess)

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[-] Evil_Shrubbery@lemm.ee 14 points 1 month ago

I like how the whole story about a few rich ppl taking the opportunity to profit even more is that much different to what's happening now.

[-] wanderwisley@lemm.ee 14 points 1 month ago

Unmute this meme immediately!

[-] KingPorkChop@lemmy.ca 13 points 1 month ago

Americans today... "Tea is for fags."

[-] Catoblepas 7 points 1 month ago

You know how Mark Twain said he came in with Halley’s Comet, and he’d go out with it too? That’s us, but with tariffs.

[-] Lighttrails@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 month ago

I think of this way too much.

[-] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 5 points 1 month ago

Unfortunately, Americans have been tamed and brainwashed by their own government.

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[-] Asfalttikyntaja@sopuli.xyz 4 points 1 month ago

But tea costs not much more now. Let’s get back when it’s more considerable expensive.

[-] don@lemm.ee 3 points 1 month ago

The ones who voted for the tariffs either didn’t know this happened, forgot, or see a lovely shade of plaid when they look up into what we call the sky.

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this post was submitted on 03 May 2025
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