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They'll cast you back to the Windows realm with all their toxic might (discuss.tchncs.de)
submitted 2 days ago by Natanox@discuss.tchncs.de to c/linuxmemes@lemmy.world
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[-] andros_rex@lemmy.world 22 points 1 day ago

What scares me is that I’ve tried to hook multiple “geekier” teenagers on Linux, and they aren’t interested. Even the math-y ones don’t know the difference between an operating system and a browser. My main computer is Arch with xmonad and it disturbs and confuses them.

We have a lost generation when it comes to computers. Lots of the little geeks that would have been playing around in the registry or learning powershell 15 years ago are so stuck in walled gardens that they don’t even know there’s a world outside of them.

[-] GreenKnight23@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago

that's because an emphasis was made to be productive on technology, not imaginative while they were kids.

[-] Gestrid@lemmy.ca 2 points 23 hours ago

To be fair, Windows really hasn't pushed Powershell all that much. They haven't even fully ported over all of Command Prompt's commands. You have to prefix those with .\ (I think; it's been a while) in order to get them to run even though the error message that comes up if you don't include that will tell you, "Hey, there's a command named this. Prefix it with that to use it."

Now, instead of simply porting everything over, they have one app (named Terminal) running both programs.

[-] harmsy@lemmy.world 9 points 1 day ago

I have no idea what CLI is. I just use Mint and don't put much thought in.

[-] letsgo@lemm.ee 7 points 21 hours ago

It's an abbreviation for Command Line Interface To Objects Residing In System. A lot of male programmers can't find it.

[-] Gestrid@lemmy.ca 4 points 23 hours ago

I think it's the Linux equivalent of Windows Command Prompt.

[-] harmsy@lemmy.world 1 points 16 hours ago

Oh, that thing. I have used that in the past, but it's been a while since I've needed to.

[-] endeavor@sopuli.xyz 1 points 19 hours ago

I had to learn cli and server linuxes as part of uni but i haven't used them for my fedora other than nvidia drivers and things windows users need to install putty and winscp for. It's nice.

[-] KingOfTheCouch@lemmy.ca 6 points 1 day ago

Grew up with ms-dos. Spent half my career in telnet and ssh consoles.

When I just want to play Balatro at the end of a long day fuck any system that requires more than click click to get me in.

That's why I'm switching to Linux when windows 10 is no longer supported because fuck win 11 and the amount of regedits it's gonna take to get that working.

[-] infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

An at least superficial understanding of the cli is an essential part of using linux. If you don't ever want to use a cli, what are you doing pursuing linux? Do you just want a free version of windows? Go pirate windows.

[-] accideath@lemmy.world 7 points 23 hours ago

I pursue Linux because I want a FOSS OS and its privacy and security benefits, not because I want to tinker and learn the CLI.

I mean, I do want to tinker and I have learned the CLI but it's not why I pursue Linux.

[-] infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net 1 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago)

I guess I should have written "If you want to never have to use a cli" instead of "If you don't ever want to use a cli", as I didn't mean you have to want to use a cli to use linux. I meant that one has to be OK with using a cli, accepting of the fact that they have to use a cli.

[-] klu9@lemmy.ca 5 points 1 day ago

A meme is a great way to avoid their fury; Lynx doesn't show images.

[-] oo1@lemmings.world 10 points 1 day ago

It's open source, they can just make their own distro.

[-] Jarix@lemmy.world 11 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

And that attitude is why Linux is struggling to gain market cap imho.

Yes they can, but maybe we need to embrace those who arent tech saavy?

Saying if you dont like it, go do your own thing is not very welcoming.

We should encourage people to create their own distribution, but maybe welcome people with open arms first, guide them to a flavour that works for them, and then encourage them to learn how to make it exactly what they want

Edit: ~~Market capture~~ > market share

[-] kittenzrulz123 2 points 22 hours ago

Why, no really tell me why we need to embrace nontechnical Linux users? What exactly does Linux have to gain? Because afaik nontechnical users dont donate, don't contribute, and dont even appreciate the software or the work maintainers put into it (and they complain far more often). Theres always "x feature doesnt work" or "y app isn't compatible" and suddenly "Linux isn't ready yet".

[-] NightmareQueenJune@lemmy.world 2 points 19 hours ago

Well, first of all that's just elitist/gatekeeping thinking and i find it quite frustrating. If you think about it, it's kind of like the "we don't want immigrants, they cause much work, cost us much and don't contribute". A higher market share always comes with benefits and with drawbacks. There will always be more people who contribute if the market share is higher. The same with hardware compatibility. Having widely adopted open source software will always benefit the community.

[-] kittenzrulz123 1 points 19 hours ago

Theres a fundamental difference between installing an operating system and immigration. That difference is the value of human life. Once again Linux is not a corporate product, there is no commercial benefit in mass adoption. Furthermore the people who contribute are for the most part technical users. Using your example the fact is nearly every country gives citizenship to skilled workers far faster and for a very good reason.

[-] NightmareQueenJune@lemmy.world 2 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago)

Okay, I see that this comparison wasn't really good. Thinking more about it it reads like a straw man argument and i'm sorry for that.
It indeed woudn't offer a commercial benefit, but I do really think that it would offer a benefit humanity. Because it would lessen the power that Mocrosoft has over the computer market. If the market share is high enough it would even spark innovation because Microsoft and co would be forced to innovate to keep their market share.
I know many people who would like to have an alternative to Windows, without the hurdles Linux still comes with. And I would like to be able to tell them that there is one but sadly I can't.

[-] kittenzrulz123 1 points 16 hours ago

Thats the fundamental problem ive been trying to get at, people fundamentally view Linux incorrectly. Linux is not a Windows competitor (at least directly) and I think thats a good thing. Linux will never run all windows software because its not Windows, that doesn't mean its not ready. Linux will never function exactly like Windows and thats imo an amazing thing (and for those people who want their system to work like Windows they have Windows).

Linux should embrace the things that make it stand out and not try to copy other operating systems, that doesn't make it non-user friendly. For example I love tiling, I love that Cosmic has embraced tiling, however keyboard based tiling is not naturally intuitive to Windows users. In addition I would argue that you arent forced to use the terminal, however the terminal is so powerful that its hard to ignore it. That doesn't mean Linux GUI apps are weak, it simply means Linux TTY/TUI software is extremely powerful.

Heres the thing, I think to a certain degree Linux is a benefit for humanity. However we need to be honest about what it is and what it is not. I think naturally rather than convincing people to switch with lies or deceit we should instead focus on strengthening the community we already have. We need more people contributing to wikis, more people on forums answeing questions, and more people in IRC/Matrix chats to help people.

My final point is this, Linux (as much as I love it) fundamentally cannot challenge Microsoft in any meaningful way. OEMs simply have no reason to switch (and in many cases Microsoft has pressured OEMs to continue using windows in an illegal manner). My point is for us thats ok, Linux right now is arguably not in a bad place. Sure there are issues with legacy apps and wayland but we are slowly progressing and with the release of Cosmic I belive Linux is progressing in a distinct manner.

[-] oo1@lemmings.world 2 points 23 hours ago

Haha market cap, market share , they're still all about selling stuff so dont really apply./ Market share is normally measured in share of revenue in most industries.

There are lots of webpages, tutorials, youtubes and stuff like that for these people already. I'm sure they can also pay companies like canonical for more dedicated support if that's what they need.

If you want to welcome people, go ahead and do it, nothing stopping you. Create the webpage or forum or youtube channel, distribution, or write the book whatever is missing. Just make sure to moderate it to remove CLI based answers and block users like me.

"I" exist and I'm sure I'm never going to be part of your "we". The current situation of linux home user base seems just fine to me without pandering to a load of windows users. I think you should work on your desired subculture and keep me out if it. Leave me out of it - i can stay over here under my bridge in linuxmemes wearing my new programming socks.

For the home market maybe you can look at valve and steamdeck or something as an example of an acessible linux sub-culture. Valve doesn't maintain and support that for free though. It'd be interesting to know how many full time employees they have on steamdeck OS just for the one device (and maybe a few gaming perpherals) and one GUI. Then expand that to all esoteric hardware and all GUIs . . .
I guess chromeOS and a few forks of that is another similar example - i think that's still linux kernel based - some limitations on hardware i think.

What I'd actually like to see is B2B growth (for user ) - but I don't think linux will ever be bought by employers like mine - I know how the procurement department operates - and I can't see that changing. There are plenty of people who don't need my support trying business sales, redhat, canonical, suse etc and more power to them - but microsoft didn't get big in B2B by being usable, nor by nor having "no CLI", nor by having a supportive community to home users. They just packaged it in a way that ticked all the boxes for the corpo procurement types - though most B2B customers do need their own dedicated user support.

[-] Jarix@lemmy.world 1 points 16 hours ago

My presumption is that we want people too so using Windows and supporting Microsoft/Apple

If you don't agree with that there really isn't much for you and I to discuss, my above view doesn't make much sense without that presumption.

So, do you think the world would be better if people stopped using Microsoft?

[-] oo1@lemmings.world 1 points 10 hours ago

That's not something that I'd think is any of my business to want or not want.

I can't really answer the last question, I'd need to know a lot more about all thendifferent things these microsoft users are doing; what're the alternatives; and, how disruptive might the transition be. On balance, given the uncertainties, I'd have to say probably not.

I mean if i stopped using Microsoft entirely (i.e. at work) I'd have to find a new job, probably one I'm less experienced at. And likely I'd end up working for a bigger bunch of scumbags. Likely no net gain and a load of botheration in the meanwhile.

Also i might miss the regular BSOD inspired tea breaks . . .

[-] rbos@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 day ago

Market cap? Which stock symbol is it? 😉

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[-] fell@discuss.tchncs.de 42 points 1 day ago

A true mainstream Linux distro would need guidelines like this:

  • The user is never be expected to type a command into a terminal.
  • The user is never be expected to edit a configuration file.
  • There is a graphical UI for every possible action the user might want to (or have to) do.

This especially includes:

  • Configuring audio devices
  • Installing graphics drivers
  • Updating the operating system
  • Managing applications and storage space
  • Connecting to networked storage
  • Adjusting kernel parameters (This is neccessary on certain hardware, yet, barely any distro has a graphical UI for it.)

The only distro that comes close to this is Linux Mint, but not even Mint covers everything I just mentioned.

If we want Linux to succeed, there needs to be at least one distro that confidently ships without a terminal.

[-] oshu@lemmy.world 1 points 18 hours ago

I've been a happy daily linux user for over 20 years. No need to wait for "linux to succeed" whatever that means. It has gotten better and more advanced every year since I first switched.

[-] kittenzrulz123 1 points 22 hours ago

I dont understand, why do we want Linux to go mainstream? Eveyone constantly says it yet nobody has an answer. In order to become mainstream it would need to be so dumbed down that people like me would stop using it.

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[-] JuxtaposedJaguar@lemmy.ml 15 points 1 day ago

“I don’t want to learn/use the CLI” is equivalent to saying “I only want to use features that have a GUI”, which you can already do on any operating system (including Linux).

[-] OrekiWoof@lemmy.ml 13 points 1 day ago

No, it means not needing terminal to have a usable system or to fix it

even Windows sometimes doesn't meet this

[-] noxypaws@pawb.social 15 points 1 day ago

I believe Linux distros aimed at nontechnical users should strive to not need a user to ever use a terminal, but I also believe folks should be encouraged to try them anyways.

[-] umbrella@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

nah fuck that noise. thats what i use.

its good to know it more deeply, but i want the practicality of a stable system that gets out of the way of my shitposting.

if anything, easy stable distros are more worthy because it allows just anyone to ditch windows. instead of being a nerd's plaything, that is.

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this post was submitted on 31 Mar 2025
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