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They'll cast you back to the Windows realm with all their toxic might (discuss.tchncs.de)
submitted 1 week ago by Natanox@discuss.tchncs.de to c/linuxmemes@lemmy.world
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[-] fell@discuss.tchncs.de 44 points 1 week ago

A true mainstream Linux distro would need guidelines like this:

  • The user is never be expected to type a command into a terminal.
  • The user is never be expected to edit a configuration file.
  • There is a graphical UI for every possible action the user might want to (or have to) do.

This especially includes:

  • Configuring audio devices
  • Installing graphics drivers
  • Updating the operating system
  • Managing applications and storage space
  • Connecting to networked storage
  • Adjusting kernel parameters (This is neccessary on certain hardware, yet, barely any distro has a graphical UI for it.)

The only distro that comes close to this is Linux Mint, but not even Mint covers everything I just mentioned.

If we want Linux to succeed, there needs to be at least one distro that confidently ships without a terminal.

[-] oshu@lemmy.world 1 points 6 days ago

I've been a happy daily linux user for over 20 years. No need to wait for "linux to succeed" whatever that means. It has gotten better and more advanced every year since I first switched.

[-] kittenzrulz123 1 points 6 days ago

I dont understand, why do we want Linux to go mainstream? Eveyone constantly says it yet nobody has an answer. In order to become mainstream it would need to be so dumbed down that people like me would stop using it.

[-] lagoon8622@sh.itjust.works 17 points 1 week ago

There can never be a distro that ships without a terminal. I will burn it with the fire of a thousand suns. Even Windows has a terminal

[-] Mesophar@pawb.social 16 points 1 week ago

Windows doesn't even cover everything you just said. The number of times Windows 10 broke my Bluetooth devices and I had to much around in registry to remove the device profile just to try to repair the device, is part of the reason I switched to Linux in the first place.

Yes, many distros need a little refining and smoothing for the general public, but only because people are so used to dealing with bullshit troubleshooting on Windows that they don't see it as bullshit anymore.

[-] Soup@lemmy.world 12 points 1 week ago

That’s a low bar, but importantly they’re still correct that technically Windows looks like it can handle those things as far as a regular consumer can see. Windows is unholy trash, but it at least doesn’t tell people who can’t even navigate their basic file explorer that they are expected to use scary terminal commands they likely found on a forum or third-party website.

Personally I think a little more tinkering spirit would do the whole world good, not just with computers, but reality is the way that it is for the moment(things can change, fingers crossed).

[-] Lv_InSaNe_vL@lemmy.world 8 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

but at least people who can't even navigate their basic file explorer that they are expected to use scary terminal commands.

This! I work in IT, in fact, I'm the director of both the IT and software teams at my company and I am constantly teaching my new techs and reminding my existing techs that they need to remember just how little the "average" person knows about computers, and how much more that is than what they'd actually care to learn.

99% of people don't care about computers, or how to make things "more efficient", or anything else. They just care about the easiest way to do something. And like it or not, the easiest way for the vast majority of people is through a GUI.

There is even an XKCD about this

And that's even before you get to the security problems! I am constantly trying to prevent users from going to FreeNuclearCodes.com or sending passwords and social security numbers to i7716tvq_88@gmail.com (actual email address I had to block last week)

[-] Natanox@discuss.tchncs.de 12 points 1 week ago

You were absolutely right about everything up until your very last sentence.

We need a distro that comes with GUIs for everything indeed, but shipping without a terminal would be both a bad idea and would cause the distro maintainer to go up in flames immediately.

[-] Jarix@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Interesting, i kinda read that quickly and took awsay from it more of a

Ships without the expectation to need a terminal, not actually ship without one at all

[-] prole 11 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

The reason I had no problem whatsoever editing config files is because I'd been doing it for decades already in Windows with .ini files.

And not needing a terminal is different than not having access to one. Windows has a terminal.

[-] 0x0@infosec.pub 6 points 1 week ago

I think it even ships with 3(?) terminals for some reason now for some reason lol

[-] droans@midwest.social 9 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Seriously - Linux needs a standardized config schema spec. Something that programs should provide which an application can read and provide a frontend interface for the users to adjust config files.

Could be something like:

schema_version: 1.0
application:
  name: Poo Analyzer
  icon_path: /etc/pooanalyzer/images/icon.png
  description: Analyzes photos of poo
schema:
  - config_file:
      path: /etc/pooanalyzer/conf/poo.conf
      conf_type: ini
    configs:
      - field: poo_directory
        type: dir_path
        name: Poo Image Directory
        description: Directory of Poo Images
        icon_path: /etc/pooanalyzer/images/poo.png
      - field: poo_type
        type: list
        name: Poo Types
        description: Types of Poo to Analyze 
        values:
          - dog
          - cat
          - human
          - brown bear
        icon_path: /etc/pooanalyzer/images/animal.png
          ...

Any distro could then create any frontend they'd like to manage this - the user could even install their own.

[-] krakenfury@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 6 days ago

Ever heard of xdg?

[-] dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago

I agree and disagree.

The premise is solid: unify config so it's standardized and machine parse-able for better integrations like an easier-to-build UI/UX. It could even have ramifications for cloud-init and older IaC tech like Puppet.

The problem is Linux itself. Or rather, the subsystems that are cobbled together to make Linux a viable OS. You're not going to get all the different projects to pivot to a common config scheme, so this YAML standard would need a backend to convert to/from whatever each little deamon and driver requires. This creates a few secondary problems like community backlash (see systemd), and having multiple places where config data must be actively synchronized.

I think the current crop of GUI config systems are aleady well down the most pragmatic path: each config panel touches one or more standard config files, wherever they are, and however they are structured. It's not pretty under the hood, and it's complicated, but it works. These tools just need a lot more polish on the frontend.

[-] droans@midwest.social 2 points 1 week ago

They could still use whatever config format they wanted - this would just be for providing their config schema. It also doesn't need to be YAML, that's just the easiest one for me to type on my phone. In fact, I think most schema validation programs rely on JSON as it is.

I also don't think programs should be required to provide it. Many core programs and kernel modules would likely take years if they ever were able to add it just to avoid the risk of mistakes causing any major issues, especially if they haven't needed an update in years. There are also many config files that use their own nonstandardized schema. A possibility is that they could be allowed to provide a CLI tool which could update the config or they could just ignore it entirely.

But creating a common schema for... well, the config schema would make it easier for systems to provide a frontend interface for updating your configs.

[-] Obi@sopuli.xyz 2 points 1 week ago

This particular program would work great in combination with old school German/Dutch toilets with the poop shelf, take a pic after the deed and let the program tell you how you need to adjust your diet.

[-] AugustWest@lemm.ee 6 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Been using fedora on a laptop for a year with no command line intervention.

I don't mind the command line, but it has been uneccesary.

[-] Peck@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago

OpenSuse does all of this or almost all of this.

[-] 0x0@infosec.pub 5 points 1 week ago

No pc OS available meets your requirements for this lol, not linux, windowns or crapple osx

Sure would be nice if linux was the first available though.

[-] uniquethrowagay@feddit.org 5 points 1 week ago

Every KDE distro can do all of these except whatever adjusting kernel parameters means? I don't know how to do any of this in the command and I've been using Linux for 8 years.

[-] lightnsfw@reddthat.com 3 points 1 week ago

They don't need to take away the command line. Just to make it so a low skill user can get by without it. Even windows ships with PowerShell.

this post was submitted on 31 Mar 2025
700 points (100.0% liked)

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