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[-] Randomgal@lemmy.ca 71 points 1 day ago

It's ok, they'll just buy them from the US. That's what allies do.

[-] Wolverdiddlyino@lemmy.world 16 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago)

Tanks have not been very useful relative to their expense in the age of drones.

[-] Naevermix@lemmy.world 10 points 6 hours ago

And yet, moving the front is almost impossible without them. All vehicles struggle with drones but at least tanks won't go down from machine gun fire, and without vehicles were pretty much back to WW1 tactics, fighting over inches.

[-] captain_oni 5 points 10 hours ago

Kinda what happened to battleships in the era of aircraft carriers and submarines?

[-] LuckyPierre@lemm.ee 87 points 1 day ago

Elsewhere on Lemmy today;

Germany warns Russia may be preparing attack on NATO

Both of these cannot be true.

[-] TThor@lemmy.world 26 points 20 hours ago

They can be true. They might be low on current stockpile, but what is building up is production capacity. Preparing to attack doesn't mean immediately attacking, what most have concern is that once Russia's war against Ukraine cools down, Russia will spend the next 4-10 years building up towards potentially attacking NATO nations.

Yes, years down the line doesn't sound as alarming to the layman, but it is critical for that eventuality to be recognized and prepared for, nations and industry move slowly, and they need to prepare to fight another long drawn out war.

[-] PumpkinSkink@lemmy.world 17 points 1 day ago

We have to keep in mind that Europe needs to justify austerity for the citizens and rearmament for their militaries. I have no evidence of this, but I think it's an entierly sensible read that the warning from Germany is an overstatement with that intent in mind.

[-] boonhet@lemm.ee 3 points 10 hours ago

I guess you need to pretend there's a threat NOW in order to divert funds towards defense now.

If the threat is in more like 10 years, why don't we start investing next year instead? etc.

[-] WanderingThoughts@europe.pub 1 points 19 hours ago

Yes, because it will impact social programs. That hardship needs to be justified.

[-] Triasha@lemmy.world 20 points 1 day ago

They absolutely can.

Russia has thousands of men willing to fight in horrendous conditions.

A few thousand soldiers that are very well equipped might lose to 10x as many badly equipped enemies.

I think they would lose, but they might not think so.

[-] explodicle@sh.itjust.works 15 points 1 day ago

I still can’t believe how fucking shameless their regime is with those “prizes”. Like… holy fuck.

[-] iAvicenna@lemmy.world 3 points 8 hours ago

I mean it is so ridiculous on so many levels but also the gifts themselves are so absurd. If some of their high up elites just skipped a single dinner, they could probably buy something that is worth 10x more. The ruling class became so addicted to their money that they can't even sacrifice a minute fraction of it for proper propaganda lol.

[-] barryamelton@lemmy.world 7 points 10 hours ago

It's about search engine squatting, if you now search "Russia meatgrinder" you get that, instead of articles about losing the war.

Lmfao this is hilariously logical and I bet it’s actually the reason

[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 8 points 1 day ago

Russia has thousands of men willing to fight in horrendous conditions.

They've got hundreds of thousands of conscripts who are largely dug in along an enormous front, along the four eastern most seized Oblasts in Ukraine.

Any attack they would make into a NATO state would be an artillery bombardment intended to deny Ukrainians resupply, not a ground invasion to secure territory. Particularly not when they have poor control over their own borders and a nasty instance of counter-insurgence popping up in and around their major cities.

[-] Valmond@lemmy.world 61 points 1 day ago

The idea is that after some kind of cease fire, russia will churn out stuff for 3-4-5 years (so mebbe 1.000 tanks?) and then not go full frontal against NATO but say take a bite out of Lithuania, just to see what the response will be.

Like they have been doing since forever (Chechnya, Moldavia, Georgia, Ukraine and so on).

[-] tauren@lemm.ee 24 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Both things can be true because Germany is talking about risks in the upcoming 5 to 10 years, while this issue is relevant today.

[-] wtckt@lemm.ee 6 points 23 hours ago

Taking over a Baltic state is feasible. NATO might react by sending helmets and prayers.

[-] seeigel@feddit.org 4 points 19 hours ago

Artikel 42 EU treaty. All members of the EU have to fight with their full capacity. This will escalate quickly.

There are already EU troops in the Baltics, just to remind the Russans of it.

[-] torrentialgrain@lemm.ee 1 points 11 hours ago

You should read Article 42.

[-] barsoap@lemm.ee 3 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

"obligation of aid and assistance by all the means in their power". Which is far above what being in NATO requires states to do. Which just btw also covers Greenland. Only ones off the hook are Ireland and Austria due to being neutral, the treaty still covers them though.

[-] torrentialgrain@lemm.ee 1 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

If a state decides that what’s in their power is sending 5000 helmets, then nobody will be able to force them to do more. Misinformed internet people think Article 42 is an automatic collective war switch, it is most certainly not and doubly so in the case of Greenland, lmao.

[-] lepinkainen@lemmy.world 31 points 1 day ago

There are ways Russia can attack that doesn’t include massive tank charges

[-] Nalivai@lemmy.world 15 points 1 day ago

If you know anything about current Russian government, you'd know that one necessarily follows the other. The more desperate Russia gets, the less reserves they have, the more bold and aggressive they're getting. There is a combination of factors leading into it, both psychological and material.

[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago
  • We're on the verge of total victory

  • The enemy is prepared to launch its biggest attack yet

Is the same war time propaganda we've been served up for decades. Iraq/Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Kosovo, Vietnam, Korea...

The news coverage is totally divorced from what is happening on the ground. There's even a term for it.

Credibility Gap

[-] jaxxed@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 day ago

Russia is still ramping up military production on a wartime economy, to be used after the Ukrainians stop fighting back. Also their production focuses on their modern options for land and air. I don't know what their naval production is doing.

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[-] LeninOnAPrayer@lemm.ee 56 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I don't know what to think anymore. I feel like every week for the last 4 years it's been "China's economy is going collapse any day now" and "Russia is losing so many people and resources in this war. They might as well give all of Russia to Ukraine"

I don't take any news written in English with any seriousness for these two countries.

Also, pretty sure modern warfare has learned heavily that tanks are completely obsolete against drones. Or even less modern warfare tells us how useless they are in cities against gorilla fighters.

[-] Not_Dav3@lemmy.world 28 points 1 day ago

Unless the Ukrainians have resorted to conscripting great apes, it's "guerilla" rather than "gorilla".

[-] neidu3@sh.itjust.works 12 points 1 day ago

I'm just here hoping it's both. A guerilla fighting gorilla sounds awesome

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[-] setsneedtofeed@lemmy.world 9 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Russia has spent up enough of of their mainline modern vehicles like T-90Ms to a point where the refurbishments have long ago stopped keeping up. Similarly IFVs are lost, especially many of their airborne models which were misused early in the war.

The war has become much more static, with Russian vehicle losses slowing them down. The final assault on Avdiivka for example was completely brutal, lasting a month and consisting of a lot of unsupported infantry charges over an open field. The Russians did eventually win, taking the fortified position they were assaulting, but the tactics used and amount of losses to do them are not something that would have happened if they'd had the vehicles to spare.

The shear scale of the war has had Russia brute force it from being a maneuver fight to an attrition fight, and Russia appears to be banking on having the higher population to win. How that will resolve is up in the air, Ukraine wants to turn it back into a maneuver war I think and I don't know if they can. The propaganda from the war by both sides can make it difficult to get a clear up to date picture.

Also, pretty sure modern warfare has learned heavily that tanks are completely obsolete against drones. Or even less modern warfare tells us how useless they are in cities against [guerrilla] fighters.

Tanks are one tool in the box, and like any other tool they are adapting to drones. Drones are not a silver bullet, and they especially are not as useful in supporting or spearheading fast moving offensives, which is still an important role tanks will fill. Active protection systems, electronic warfare (both jamming and signal detection to track down enemy drone operators), and tank based drones are all in play to figure out how to best do things now.

As for cities, tanks have always had trouble in cities. This isn't a revelation of this war. Militaries tend to be skiddish of putting tanks in city fights unless they really have to. Russia particularly still has memories of Chechnya in this regard.

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[-] LordR@lemmy.world 200 points 1 day ago

I really hope Russia is collapsing soon so Ukraians can have actual peace.

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[-] pepperprepper@lemmy.world 60 points 1 day ago

Unfortunately I think this also has to do with the changing tech around war. Drones are the new hotness and it is a very good counter to tanks warfare.

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[-] JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works 101 points 1 day ago

It's seriously astonishing that they managed to wear though the entire massive Soviet stockpile.

Covert Cobal has great tank and apv counting vids, documenting the ever worsening condition of the vehicles remaining. https://youtube.com/@covertcabal

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this post was submitted on 30 Mar 2025
886 points (100.0% liked)

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