it's so fucking true
Anytime they pull you into an argument, suddenly 5 more show up to try and overwhelm you. There's no way it isn't a deliberate tactic.
it's so fucking true
Anytime they pull you into an argument, suddenly 5 more show up to try and overwhelm you. There's no way it isn't a deliberate tactic.
The three notifications in my inbox before this one were .mls misreading my comment.
That is a tactic they learned from real life tanks. Argue with one tank, more tanks show up.
Tanks are pack hunters, after all.
I think they can’t stand talking to each other unless it’s circle-jerking over how much "theory" they've read. So, they love getting a chance to scream at an outsider.
>talk to each other
"These tankies are caught up in an echo chamber, they never expose themselves to outside ideas or engage with criticism!"
>talk to other people
"These tankies can't stand talking to each other and just want to scream at outsiders!"
Can't win.
Plot twist. All 5 are the same guy using multiple alt accounts.
That was Hexbear's modus operandi when they federated with other instances to "dunk" on people. Seeing as many HB users have .ml accounts to bypass defederation, it's no surprise they keep up that behaviour on .ml. I've seen numerous threads where the vote count suddenly plummets right when a bunch of tankies show up at once to yell at whoever they consider a shitlib. Which is everyone who isn't authoritarian.
The answer is not to get dragged into convesrations with idiots. We used to call it "not feeding the trolls" and it's something of a lost art.
If you make them look bad they delete the thread. It's happened to me twice. I consider it a win, but it is sad that others won't see how wacky they are.
They even downvote you if you agree with them.
serious question, is there any chance a large portion of these users are acting in bad faith and don't actually believe these things because the now threads i see, the more that seems to be the case
They are very agressive, to the point where the slightest disagreement will cause them all to collectively (no pun intended) hound your comment.
Then they complain about leftist infighting.
I don't understand the constant liberal need to assume everyone who disagrees with you is acting in bad faith. Not everyone believes the same things as you. If you like, I can explain why I believe the things I do and what works or life experiences led me to those conclusions.
The platform you're using was designed by Marxist-Leninists, it shouldn't be surprising to find Marxist-Leninists on here.
This was literally my onboarding experience with a .ml account. I dunked on some power users out of the gate (by pointing out they clearly had not read the essay they linked) and was put on a short leash from then on. To the point where I'd catch new bans for posting anything even remotely political.
Ok, what’s a tankie?
Originally, it meant people who supported the soviet union's use of tanks to crush uprisings.
Now its used to describe people who support Authoritatian Communist regimes, like the ussr, north korea or china.
On lemmy.ml and lemmygrad.ml there is a high amount of them.
Somehow they even support modern russia which is as far from communism as it's possible to be without being US
Their reasoning is that its anti-us imperialism, despite russia being pretty imperialistic itself.
the other vein of pro-russian tankies i've seen is that it's impossible for a once communist country to backslide into fascis. how they square that and russia's claim that they must destroy Ukraine, a country that was once not just communist, but anarcho-communist, in order to stop their backslide into fascism, i have no idea. perhaps if a person is actually familiar with history and not just a single pro-hegemonic propaganda, they wouldn't be tankies.
i've been developing a theory, more of a hypothesis, really, that tankies, hoteps, white feminists, etc have figured out a part of the puzzle of oppression, and in their anger at waking up to that aspect of their reality, reject all other discourse surrounding the system of oppression that doesn't mesh with their experienced oppression. this, in many ways, is the root of leftist infighting. everyone sees everyone else's fight for liberation as a distraction from their own fight for liberation. the trick is, none of them are. they are simply different expressions of how the ruling class controls us.
when a tankie says shit like "the trans issue is a distraction" the are sparking leftist infighting, charitably unknowingly. our trans brothers, sisters, and thembers are our allies in this, and are generally speaking (not universally of course, i don't want to give the impression anyone is a homogenous group) left as hell. we need them to help us in our fight because they are experienced, battle hardened, and see things the rest of us don't see because they are tuned in.
the thing is that… yes. the culture wars are distractions. but that doesn't mean we shouldn't fight in them. that's like saying the best response to being bullied in school is to take your beating and tell no one because you're focused on a bigger issue. that's a great way to get your legs broke. the answer is to push back against the culture wars and say why we push back, and say that our enemy combatants are distracted from the real war. that they are acting as class traitors from a deep system of manipulation.
tankies don't realize it, or maybe they do, but they're conservatives. they seek to maintain a hegemony that oppresses us, the working classes, that has been shown not to work. authoritarian communism is still authoritarianism, and also expresses somewhere between most and all of the features of ur-fascism. it will never save us from our oppression. they also tell on themselves when they say "read theory" and all the books they reference were published before WWII. the world has moved on. we have learned more about our oppressors. they're leaving out a century of theory when they say to read theory. they are practitioners of the religion of Marxist-Leninism
the other vein of pro-russian tankies i’ve seen is that it’s impossible for a once communist country to backslide into fascis.
You haven't seen that because literally no one says or believes this. It's entirely your own invention, a blatant strawman.
As I always say, "If someone claims something happened on the fediverse without providing a link, they’re lying."
Didn't read anything after that because you started with such a blatant lie.
What people tend not to realize is they don't support Russia because they think it's still communist, but because of a combination of campism, accelerationism, and revolutionary defeatism. If you want to argue with someone in good faith you should try to understand their position first, otherwise they will just see you as a reactionary and dismiss what you say. I still occasionally get my comments removed from .ml but I've been able to get through to people somewhat by leading with an actual understanding of where they're coming from.
Campism is Trotskyist criticism and not a term we use. Accelerationism is an edgelord meme that some baby leftists might subscribe to, but is generally a very dumb concept.
However, I'll give props for knowing about revolutionary defeatism, which is a factor in our analysis. It was, pretty indisputably, the correct position to take in WWI, when it was developed. In fact, before the war, socialist parties across Europe came together and, seeing the possibility of the war on the horizon, agreed that in the event of such a war they would work together against their own governments. Once the war actually started, however, "socialists" in Britain, France, and Germany all fell in line behind their government in support of their own side in the imperialist war. They either succumbed to pressure or sought to advance their own positions as careerists and opportunists. Only in Russia did the socialists stay true to their promise and used the opportunity to turn the imperialist war into a civil war, and eventually managed to nope out of the meat grinder everyone else was stuck in.
Whether revolutionary defeatism is generally applicable is another question, but it is sort of our, "null hypothesis," you might say. But more important are the underlying ideas that support revolutionary defeatism. We don't just agree with it because Lenin said it, but because it tracks with our own analysis, which is based on class and realpolitik. Furthermore, history cautions us to be skeptical when our country tells us a war is justified, as we see many examples throughout history where people fell in line behind narratives that did not hold up, whether it was WWI or Vietnam or Iraq - whenever any country goes to war, there is a strong pressure and lots of propaganda that is able to convince the vast majority of people to support it, everyone always thinks, "but this time, it's different," and more often than not, they're wrong.
Generally speaking, arguments that are grounded on things like territorial integrity or national sovereignty don't really have traction with us. Revolution involves aggressively violating national sovereignty, after all. If you want to speak our language, then you have to frame your arguments in terms of the benefit to the common people.
I really haven't seen that? A while ago I looked into HexBear's opinion on it and it wasn't good.
Check out this thread, there really isn’t any Putin worship in these spaces.
https://hexbear.net/post/148426?scrollToComments=false
In this one some of the top comments are hoping Putin gets shot in the face. https://hexbear.net/post/3270551
Half a century ago it meant people who supported the soviet union using tanks to put down a cia backed coup in Hungary.
Modern times in the west it means anyone left of AOC.
Or, hear me out, it actually means people who support authoritarian communism. Especially focussed on Stalin and Mao.
Mao was right about landlords. If nothing else. He was right about landlords.
Whoa, watch out, you might hit someone with that goalpost, swinging it around like that
Do you know who else was right about landlords? A shit ton of people that didn't get millions of their own citizens killed through incompetence and mismanagement.
I would never call a leftist a "tankie" because they are a leftist. People who do that are idiots. The important part of the word is the support of authoritarian regimes.
Which is pretty weird nowadays because neither Russia, China nor North Korea are even communist/leftist anymore.
Modern times in the west it means anyone left of AOC.
That would be a large swathe of Europe, so... no.
Criticizing Marxists on a community that is federated with the largest Marxist-aligned instances will indeed result in a struggle session.
Not criticising marxists, just tankies.
As we already discussed, if the vast majority of Marxists fit the definition of "tankie" you gave, then it's just a pejorative for Marxists. The Black Panther Party supported and was influenced by the DPRK, if you count that as "glorifying," in your own words, then the Black Panthers were tankies. If you don't, and believe them to have been sufficiently nuanced, then "tankies" practically do not exist on Lemmy.
Alright, forget the word tankie.
People who
Most Marxists do not uncritically support Russia, though opposition to the Nationalists like Azov in Ukraine is something common on the Left, and believe Russia's anti-US stance is beneficial for the Global South (see the string of African liberation movements in the past few years). Most Marxists can agree that the Uyghur people have been placed in re-education camps, but most do not believe they are being systemically murdered en masse like many people report. Most Marxists think the DPRK is doing surprisingly well for a country under extreme embargoes and was subject to more tons of bombs than the pacific front in World War II, not that it would be preferable to live there than in a highly developed country free from those problems.
Nice rainbow
Are anti-genocide "tankies" really the biggest threat to democracy right now?
Fascists and Nazis are in the white house destroying the US. They are also on the verge of taking over and destroying Europe.
Everyone to the left of fascism needs to unite together to stop the neo-Nazis before it is too late. If the Nazis are allowed to start ww3 then nukes will end us all.
i mean, you guys are constantly making entire threads about how you hate either our moderation rules, or our opinions...
Virtually every ban and removed comment found in the mod log from an .ml community gets a dedicated thread these days.
It has everything to do with how demanding to see the manager/admin/dev doesn't auto-bypass moderation policies. Works on centralized social media where the owners and their employees get flummoxed over potential ad revenue.
It's really cool zooming in and out of the rainbow on your phone. You can't tell the zoom is also happening. In the vertical direction, only horizontal, so it's an odd effect I haven't seen before.
It's a coward who needs an echo chamber to find support for their perspectives.
Memes about the Fediverse.
Other relevant communities: