Are anti-genocide "tankies" really the biggest threat to democracy right now?
Fascists and Nazis are in the white house destroying the US. They are also on the verge of taking over and destroying Europe.
Everyone to the left of fascism needs to unite together to stop the neo-Nazis before it is too late. If the Nazis are allowed to start ww3 then nukes will end us all.
I guess so, but they seem a bit more focused on liberals than conservatives.
Yeah right now, I don't care about tankies all that much. Are they annoying at times? Fuck yes. Are they a threat to my life? Fuck no.
I don't mind moderating content online, but its fucking weird people are more pressed about Tankies online, spending more time about them than Trump. At least memes can maybe sway someone about the terminally online, it doesn't stop Trump when someone shares a meme.
Criticizing Marxists on a community that is federated with the largest Marxist-aligned instances will indeed result in a struggle session.
Not criticising marxists, just tankies.
As we already discussed, if the vast majority of Marxists fit the definition of "tankie" you gave, then it's just a pejorative for Marxists. The Black Panther Party supported and was influenced by the DPRK, if you count that as "glorifying," in your own words, then the Black Panthers were tankies. If you don't, and believe them to have been sufficiently nuanced, then "tankies" practically do not exist on Lemmy.
Alright, forget the word tankie.
People who
Most Marxists do not uncritically support Russia, though opposition to the Nationalists like Azov in Ukraine is something common on the Left, and believe Russia's anti-US stance is beneficial for the Global South (see the string of African liberation movements in the past few years). Most Marxists can agree that the Uyghur people have been placed in re-education camps, but most do not believe they are being systemically murdered en masse like many people report. Most Marxists think the DPRK is doing surprisingly well for a country under extreme embargoes and was subject to more tons of bombs than the pacific front in World War II, not that it would be preferable to live there than in a highly developed country free from those problems.
Maybe they should stop playing devils advocate for Russia in general, If you have to have a conversation about the Genocidal Mob state, and throw a bunch of ifs, ands, or buts in the discussion. You're already stoking trouble.
America can be bad, and Russia can be equally bad in the same instance.
Russia is not a global Hegemon. Even if it wanted to be as bad as the US, it physically can't do nearly the damage the US does on a daily basis.
equally bad
not by a long shot, and thats the point.
I get called tankie from time to time, but 1a. I hate Putin's corrupt fascist oligarchy 1b. I fully support Ukraine!
The Uyghurs absolutely were mistreated, but it is hard to care about at the moment when the US and Isreal are carrying out an actual genocide. Also, neo-nazis have taken over the US and are illegally abducting minorities.
I think the DRPK is very problematic, but they seem to be doing well despite the US putting such ridiculously excessive embargos and sanctions on them. Overall they are probably no worse off than capitalist India and they are probably better off than most 3rd world capitalist nations like Iran, Brazil, Haiti, Afghanistan, etc...
I don't know the rest of your political beliefs, but from this you don't seem to be a tankie from this.
That definition doesn't even apply to the people you're critising
Given that "tankie" means anyone to the left of Elizabeth Warren, Marxists are a subset of tankies.
Don't bother with him, I've tagged him as "bad actor" because he might seem reasonable at first glance but if you start pushing him on topics you know better than him it quickly becomes clear he's arguing in bad faith.
So you lost an argument to him and got salty about it.
No. He proceeded to say my argument is based on anecdotal evidence (which I had no problem acknowledging because personal experiences are subjective even if they are personal experiences of an entire group of people) only to turn around and present an even more anecdotal evidence than mine (the experience of a single individual) as something factual, and then double down defending it when called out about it being anecdotal evidence. He will dismiss or deflect any kind of argument he doesn't agree with and then present his own arguments that are just as fallible to the reasons he uses to dismiss arguments. He's not in discussions in good faith, he refuses to question his own beliefs and he only pushes his own beliefs onto others.
I'm not salty about talking to him, I simply don't see any value in having a discussion where the only possible outcome is him being right about everything and me being wrong about everything. Just look at the thread here. I'll give you an example. OP clarified who he meant by tankies.
People who
Support modern russia and/or are opposed to Ukraine Deny that the Uyghurs were mistreated by china Think the DRPK is a nice place to live right now.
and his response to that was:
Most Marxists do not uncritically support Russia, though opposition to the Nationalists like Azov in Ukraine is something common on the Left, and believe Russia’s anti-US stance is beneficial for the Global South (see the string of African liberation movements in the past few years).
Translation. We don't fully support Russia but we do support Russia for reasons not at all related to the conflict in question.
Most Marxists can agree that the Uyghur people have been placed in re-education camps, but most do not believe they are being systemically murdered en masse like many people report.
Translation. We can (which doesn't mean you actually do) accept Uyghurs have been mistreated, but we do (no longer can) not accept the systematical mistreatment. (which is the core of the criticism when it comes to the treatment of Uyghurs, not to mention the allegations of torture and sterilization etc. that are also completely glossed over).
Most Marxists think the DPRK is doing surprisingly well for a country under extreme embargoes and was subject to more tons of bombs than the pacific front in World War II, not that it would be preferable to live there than in a highly developed country free from those problems.
Translation. DPRK would be a nice place to live right now if not for those pesky embargoes and bombs (notice not a single criticism at the authoritarian government that is arguably the biggest reason DPRK is not a good place to live at)
And then when OP gives him an inch in good faith he takes the whole inch and pushes OP to "not call people tankies" even though he's exactly the kind of person OP is calling out.
There are more examples of him being disingenuous, deflecting arguments that push him to admit even the slightest of mistakes and then pushing his own agenda on others. No examples of him dismissing valid arguments in this thread but I'm sure people can find those in other threads. And with that I think I've made my point to the people will listen.
The fact that you felt the need to write out - at length - your extremely one-sided and obviously self serving account of the argument makes me even more convinced that you lost an argument and are extremely salty about it.
He’s not in discussions in good faith, he refuses to question his own beliefs and he only pushes his own beliefs onto others.
Sounds like projection on your part.
Translation.
No, the comment was already in English. You're just ignoring what he actually said so you can create a lazy strawman. I'm unsurprised that you were absolutely the one not discussing in good faith.
Translation
Again, no. You can't address what he said, so you're making up your own strawman.
And then when OP gives him an inch in good faith he takes the whole inch and pushes OP to “not call people tankies”
What, specifically, are you accusing him of doing wrong? Sounds like you just don't like him disagreeing with you.
even though he’s exactly the kind of person OP is calling out.
OP has explicitly said otherwise, but you've already established you feel entitled to tell people their own opinions.
There are more examples of him being disingenuous,
Any actual examples though?
then pushing his own agenda on others.
Yes, that's what arguing for your position is. What is he supposed to do, just automatically concede to you?
I’m sure people can find those in other thread
Uhuh. Still seems like you're the one arguing in bad faith.
And with that I think I’ve made my point to the people will listen.
You have indeed demonstrated that your were arguing in bad faith from the start and that you're just salty someone disagreed with you.
What's a tankie, and what's wrong with the .ml instance? I just joined it because I read that it was hosted by the people who created Lemmy, so I figured it'd be the best and/or least likely to go down
Hi there,
lemmy.ml has a slight problem of removing pro-ukraine and anti-china posts. It has a high amount of what are called "tankies". These are communists who believe authoritarian regimes were great. (nothing against communists in general);
Exactly this. Like someone will post an article from RT saying that Ukraine grids up babies for fun. If you ask if RT is really the best source you get a response like “RT cites its sources. If you don’t believe it you can read the sources!!”
If you mention that the sources aren’t reliable or question anything you get sealioned hard.
I would recommend making an account on any instance not ending in .ml or bear.net That way you can have actual conversations without having to wade through the nonsense.
They will also argue terminology instead of addressing the points you raise.
Nothing's wrong with .ml people just like drama.
Locking as people have reached the point where they're just insulting each other/telling each other to kill themselves.
i mean, you guys are constantly making entire threads about how you hate either our moderation rules, or our opinions...
Virtually every ban and removed comment found in the mod log from an .ml community gets a dedicated thread these days.
It has everything to do with how demanding to see the manager/admin/dev doesn't auto-bypass moderation policies. Works on centralized social media where the owners and their employees get flummoxed over potential ad revenue.
Yeah, I think people constantly making those posts are a bit annoying, like they're just trying to stir shit up, but a lot of users on grad, hex and ml will very agressively defend themselves under these threads, hence the meme.
edit: yet again downvoted by .ml for agreeing with them.
it's so fucking true
Anytime they pull you into an argument, suddenly 5 more show up to try and overwhelm you. There's no way it isn't a deliberate tactic.
The answer is not to get dragged into convesrations with idiots. We used to call it "not feeding the trolls" and it's something of a lost art.
If you make them look bad they delete the thread. It's happened to me twice. I consider it a win, but it is sad that others won't see how wacky they are.
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