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[-] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 64 points 6 days ago

Unused housing should be taxed mercilessly.

And single-family homes should have a 100% annual tax on them, unless they are owned by an individual human/family (none of this LLC bullshit) who own only 1 house. Make a 6-month exception for inherited houses just so they can be sold, but otherwise just tax the shit out of them.

Make hoarding housing a liability.

[-] arrow74@lemm.ee 18 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

Disagree, my grandfather's home has set vacant for nearly 4 years now after his passing. The estate cannot be wrapped up due to my estranged uncle not believing the property is worthless.

The county keeps upping the tax assessment, and so he's convinced it's worth something and refuses to visit the preoperty.

On paper this is an unused house in reality the roof finally fell in about 6 months after my grandfather died. The county refuses to condem it because they want the tax revenue and my estranged uncle has held up the estate indefinitely with unrealistic expectations.

I wouldn't say my poor as fuck family deserve a 100% annual tax on the assessed value of a near worthless asset.

[-] prole 23 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

I imagine the options would be to pay the tax or just, I dunno, get rid of the property? You said it's worthless.

[-] jj4211@lemmy.world 9 points 6 days ago

I mean, he plainly explained that there's a son bogging down the estate over the house. He might have said "worthless" but I'm sure it's more like some land value and essentially zero structure value, so they might want to get a few thousand, while he blocks that transaction holding out for ten-fold. He also asserts the county tax assessments are not consistent with market value, and I think most people who have dealt with tax assessments can relate to the disconnect between realistic market value and tax assessment, one way or the other.

Or even if they did say "fine, you know what, take the property and we'll take the rest and you can deal with trying to extract the value you think there is", if he doesn't agree to that you can't really force it short of fully disclaiming yourself out of the entire estate. So if the man had $200k in other assets, then that would be an expensive thing to forfeit for the sake of not dealing with a busted house on a bit of land.

[-] ryathal@sh.itjust.works 9 points 6 days ago

It's a common problem with estates though even if 4/5 people want to sell it for whatever they can get, that 1 person can keep it in limbo for a very long time. If there wasn't a will or trust that explicitly gave someone power (and even if there is in some cases), a few years of nothing happening isn't actually outside the norm.

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[-] arrow74@lemm.ee 6 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

The house is, the land does have some value even after demolition costs. Basically uncle thinks it's worth 200,000. In reality it's worth 40,000, maybe a bit less.

Also my parents have their trailer (does not belong to the estate) on the property. They'd love to settle it, but 1 party refuses.

This plan would actually make my parents homeless as they can't afford to purchase anything else or rent anywhere near where they live. If they could at least divide the proceeds of the land sale they might be able to afford something. This proposed tax would break them

[-] jj4211@lemmy.world 10 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

Based on my experience, you managed to described like every rural estate situation I've ever seen. Household living in a trailer towed onto their parents land. That household probably doing a lot to take care of their parents. Then the parents die and suddenly some relative no one has heard from in decades comes along to really screw things up, often from an urban area with zero concept of the market realities of a poorly mantained house on rural land.

I get the whole "hoarding sucks" but it's really only an urban problem. Go to a rural area and you can find plenty of housing stock for cheap.

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[-] NABDad@lemmy.world 41 points 6 days ago

I don't like the idea of US government taking the property at below market value, since that would violate the takings clause of the Constitution.

What I would be in favor of is a real estate tax that increases if a property isn't permanently occupied. Something that would encourage people to either reduce rent or unload the property.

It should be a reasonably gradual increase so that landlords aren't penalized if they can't find a tenant in the first or second month the unit is vacant. However if it's been a year they should be approaching the point of owing more in taxes than the property is worth.

Then you can take it for back taxes.

It would also discourage air b2b type arrangements, unless you own and live in the property. No more buying a house so you can rent it out for exorbitant rates.

[-] Aux@feddit.uk 14 points 6 days ago

Annual land tax. The more you hoard - the more you pay.

[-] Trainguyrom@reddthat.com 9 points 6 days ago

There are specifically tax deductions for taxes paid on your primary residence, so theoretically there is a higher cost to owning multiple properties, however this cost is simply too low to be much of a deterrence

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[-] psivchaz@reddthat.com 7 points 6 days ago

Couple the increasing property taxes on vacant homes with an agreement that there are no property taxes on properties leased for free to qualified individuals (people who would qualify for government housing anyway essentially) and the government will pay for repairs. The government gets a cheaper place to house the homeless, having only to pay for repairs, the landlord gets an appreciating asset with no repairs to worry about, and the homeless get a place to live. Seems like a win all around unless I'm missing something.

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[-] Lv_InSaNe_vL@lemmy.world 7 points 6 days ago

Honestly I would be okay with giving them 6-12 months of leeway. There's a ton of reasons why it could take 6 months or more to be able to find a tenant, especially if the previous tenant did significant damages or if there's wider economic issues in the area.

[-] NABDad@lemmy.world 7 points 6 days ago

I'd be ok with them being able to appeal the increased rate, but they'd need to show that they are actively working to make it ready to rent.

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[-] whiskeytango@lemm.ee 23 points 6 days ago

As a current landlord about to extend a lease at exactly the same terms for 3rd year in a row (and I fix everything within 24 hours) - I agree with this too.

It's ridiculous that my largest store of value is a speculation bubble and a piece of paper with my name on it

[-] twopi@lemmy.ca 2 points 4 days ago

Will be in your situation in due time.

Inheritance will give my siblings and I property.

My siblings and I have already talked about it. We're looking to see if we can transfer it to Community Land Trusts or sell.

Here's a link to the Canada wide association: https://www.communityland.ca/

Here's the one specific to Ottawa: https://www.oclt.ca/

There are others in other cities.

Some (like Ottawa) don't take individual units yet but we'll prob sell and then invest in them or if they choose to buy individual units, sell to them.

If you can find one. Sell to a community land trust or housing co-op. You can get your capital back and the people living there can manage and own their own homes.

You can then reinvest the capital into other projects: https://tapestrycapital.ca/

Or in renewable energy: https://www.orec.ca/

Or credit union class B shares.

They try to aim for 4-5% ROI so above inflation. Unfortunately, most people want the ubsustainable returns in real estate.

[-] whiskeytango@lemm.ee 2 points 4 days ago

Ooo! Those are good alternatives. I'll give em a read through. It might solve something on my end.

Say I want to move cities for a new job. There are at least two uncertainties I need to resolve -

  1. will this job work out for the long term?
  2. will I like this city at all (or know where to buy)?

This prevents me from wanting to buy immediately.

What prevents me from selling immediately is losing a stable footing I can plan around if the new city doesn't work out. More broadly for everyone in this situation though is the cash sits.

I will need to buy immediately or park it in some investment that keeps pace/liquid enough to convert back to a house, which requires additional knowledge/research.

So to be risk averse, sitting on the house is generally a safe default...

But thank you for starting me on considering this as an options and what parameters need to be met to make sense.

[-] twopi@lemmy.ca 2 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Glad to help.

For now. I'd at least put it in your will and talk to the beneficiaries of your estate about it.

I have family members who are more into the whole Real Estate "game" and would rather the property. Putting it in your will prevent any shenanigans.

The whole "society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they will never know" and all that.

You're right about moving cities part of it. Ideally if there are enough community land trusts and housing cooperatives you won't face such issues as the distinction between "renting" and "owning" will disappear. And your investments will be divorced from land and onto actual projects.

[-] daq@lemmy.sdf.org 5 points 6 days ago

I couldn't disagree more. All the hatred should be directed at individuals/companies that own a bunch of properties. They are specifically in the business of fucking people.

[-] Snowclone@lemmy.world 5 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

The thing I hate most is that all of these clowns will tell you you MUST raise rent every year. They also would likely try and murder you if you even got close to forcing them to pay their employees more every year, or even just other people's employees. Keep in mind, if you own the property, you are making money with equity no matter if you have tenants or not. So all the rent is gravy but they want to squeeze people to death because they legally have to maintain their own rentals, which the cost of upkeep is REALLY far below the rent paid. Again, $0 in rent is STILL making money off the property.

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[-] xye@lemm.ee 4 points 6 days ago

As opposed to the people who merely own one family of serfs?

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[-] The_Caretaker@lemm.ee 18 points 6 days ago

Ban corporations from owning residential properties. Houses shouldn't be held like stocks or cryptocurrency. Only allow individuals to own a maximum of two residential properties, which must be occupied by the owner at least 5 months out of the year or be surrendered to the government, to be sold to an individual who will live in the house.

The current federal government? This is about the United States Federal Government?

LOL, nope don't trust them.

They'll seize the houses of "smaller" landlords and give them to the 1% rich landlords, and their houses would be exempt from the regulations. Then they will raise the rent even more, and this time, they will actually have good lawyers, and the tenants will lose every time.

The government needs to be fixed before we can even attempt to fix other issues.

This government would seize housing, then deny access to people of color, LGBT people, people with disabilities (yes the ADA exist, but fascists ignore laws), probably anyone who ever voted registered as a democrat, and anyone else critical of the regime.

[-] JcbAzPx@lemmy.world 7 points 6 days ago

This would have to be done at the state level anyway since they enforce most of the real estate laws.

[-] Jumpingspiderman@lemmy.world 18 points 6 days ago

I am a former landlord and I approve of this message. We are back in the house we rented out for 22 years after we moved across the country to a better job, in a place we didn't care for. We kept our house here so we could come back. We rented it out for 22 years at 30% or even less than market rate ($1600 a month in 2022 for a 3 bed two bath house near LA and a 10 m walk from the train) and we endured crooked and incompetent property managers, failed appliances and tenants who didn't pay rent. One became a bank robber after we evicted them for not paying rent. They could have started robbing banks earlier I guess so they could at least pay the rent. Anyway, it worked out very well for us. We are back in our house where we like to live. People and companies who buy a bunch of houses and don't rent them out to give people places to live shouldn't be able to profit from doing that.

[-] merc@sh.itjust.works 17 points 6 days ago

Anyway, it worked out very well for us

This proves the point. This is the kind of story that should end "so, in the end we ended up losing money on the place". But, if an absent landlord can hire crooked and incompetent property managers, deal with deadbeat tenants, and still have it work out very well for them then it's an investment where you really can't lose.

I'm sure you're lovely people. I don't mean to criticize you in particular, just the game.

[-] Jumpingspiderman@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago

Had we sold our house when we took that job back east we would never have been able to come back here on what we could have saved from what a working person makes. So like I said, it worked out for us.

[-] Zetta@mander.xyz 8 points 6 days ago

I don't know why you're getting disliked, it's straight facts. And you weren't even mean!

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[-] Korhaka@sopuli.xyz 12 points 6 days ago

Just apply a 300% tax on empty property. Empty houses don't contribute to the local economy by using local businesses.

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[-] Sgt_choke_n_stroke@lemmy.world 14 points 6 days ago

Based I think the same thing should be done to retail stores. If you can't get people to rent it. Force a sale of the building

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[-] 13igTyme@lemmy.world 11 points 6 days ago

Even if we build cheap apartments for the homeless and fully fund it with tax payer money it actually saves tax payer money and gets the homeless out of the already over stressed healthcare system.

Most homeless are in and out of the hospital for easily preventable diagnosis that is a direct result of living on the street. This would free up a bed in the ED, free up a bed in acute care if admitted, and free up urgent care and other EMT resources.

This has been studied for YEARS. We know the answer to directly solving this without even trying to fix the other systemic issues at play here.

However, having a homeless population is good for capitalism. It's an area where an employer can point to and say, "If you don't work for pennies on the dollar, you'll end up there."

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[-] gigachad@sh.itjust.works 14 points 6 days ago

Well they could fix it in 2 years by this logic

[-] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 6 days ago

That's assuming that there's no such buildings already. That assumption would be extremely incorrect.

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[-] drhodl@lemmy.world 5 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

Hey, I just rented my property for exactly what the council rates and body corporate expenses are. A $160 pw home. Not even a mark up to cover repairs etc, because capital gain will more than cover that. I did it because I hate what is happening in housing currently, especially for young buyers. Now my new tenant wants to delay moving in for 3 weeks, and not pay any rent during that time. /sigh....what scum I am....

[-] rumba@lemmy.zip 8 points 6 days ago

Housing the homeless is a good idea, but doing it in a random, hap-hazard way is dangerous.

Govt takes over a block of brownstones, and throws a bunch of random people off the street with abuse/violence/psychological issues in them as fast as possible for six months, it's a recipe for disaster.

You have to be careful about housing people as a government, you become (at least partially) responsible for their actions. Somebody starts cooking meth on an end unit and all of a sudden you have a fire that kills 30 people.

When the govt plans housing they can take flammability, safety, and location into consideration. If you're just buying up slums to rehab, most of that goes out the window.

[-] Wilco@lemm.ee 6 points 6 days ago

They need to invest in group homes for the people you are describing. One well paid housekeeper oversees 5-10 mixable homeless people. By mixable I mean not mixing those with mental issues in with drug users, etc. This is now impossible to hope for in the US with the horrifically cruel "religious conservative" party in control.

[-] Bytemeister@lemmy.world 8 points 6 days ago

Why pay 40% market value?

How about this instead. If we continue to have rent and landlords, let's make a market incentive to lower prices.

Tax empty housing at a rate proportional to the advertised rental rate. Example, if a landlord has an unused unit listed for 1500 a month, they pay an empty housing penalty of, let's arbitrarily say 20%. Now they have an incentive to fill the unit at a lower price. They can no longer just price-gouge with their competitors to drive up rates. What do we do with the money we receive from those penalties? We provide housing assistance. So now the top and the bottom of the market start to balance each other out. Here's the real cool thing about this system, you can tie that penalty rate to the number of housing-insecure or unhoused people in the population. Now we can have a self-regulating system that provides an incentive to push rental rates down, but also gives low-income renters more money to rent with.

[-] DoubleDongle@lemmy.world 2 points 5 days ago

Do you think you provide housing? Here's a list of common signs:

If someone stole all your tools, you'd kill them, and you don't think that's weird.

Unhealthy relationship with caffeine (bonus points for other substances too)

At least one fucked-up bone or joint

There's some Liquid Nails or silicone caulk stuck in your favorite work shirt

Your hearing isn't as good as it used to be

Regular porta-shitter use

If two or more of these fit your lifestyle, you may be a provider of housing.

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this post was submitted on 26 Mar 2025
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