Cinnamon just works
The thing is, though, that command line instructions work on most flavours of whatever distro you have running. If you have an xfce problem it's fair game to tell you where to click, but if your issue is not related to your desktop environment, giving a solution that works on most, if not all, systems that may have the same issue, is actually a good idea. No?
Also, command line allows for greater automation, has more granular control, often has more features and can be... I'm doing ain't I? I'm being a Freeza.
And many folks have headless setups
raspberry pis, home servers, VPSs, etc. It's kinda overkill to install a desktop environment on a headless box if the only reason you need it is so you can VNC into it for a simple task that could be done over ssh.
Yes! Command line instructions are often universal instructions. This is imho a huge boon for Linux.
*Advice
What are these "solutions" you speak of? All help forum posts must follow this format:
"I want to do x."
"Why would you want to do x? Don't do x.".
I want to shoot myself in the foot
Why would you want to do that? Don't do that?
Why are people so rude to me? I asked a question and they won't answer it. The Linux community sucks
Yeah it sucks.
If I wanna shoot myself, let me shoot myself. Maybe I'm into that. Who are you to judge whats good for me?
If you so desperately want to shoot yourself in the foot, put some effort into it and figure it out instead of asking strangers on the internet for free advice because you're lazy. Not everyone is into enabling people mutilating their bodies.
Why would you want to shoot yourself? Don’t do x.
Closed as Duplicate.
(the post pointed to as the original is a post from 2013 deleted in 2018)
I have no idea what this mean is even trying to say, but as someone who is trying to make the switch to Linux, it is a steep learning curve, even for the most "user-friendly" distros.
A lot of the information in forums assumes some sort of basic knowledge of code and processes which aren't readily available. I've asked a few noob questions and while there are some helpful people out there, there are also a fuck load of assholes who seem to think they walked out the womb speaking Ubuntu.
So my message to those people is, if you're not gonna be helpful, kindly keep your snide comments to yourself.
Yeah, I can confirm this. I've been using Linux for around two years at this point and having a Linux-using friend made the transition at the start way easier. Now I'm the Linux-using friend for all of my Linux-curious friends and it's great.
If you're getting coding advice, you might be on the wrong forums, which can explain the snark.
You don't need to do code to use Linux. You can use Bash if you want, but it's not a necessity
Too many people expect you to know and understand gnu-utils and all the common config file, filesystem and folder structure paradigms though. Which is the problem.
The problem is that Linux nerds, myself included, are too deep in the knowledge to even think of sth. You might not know. And my way to learn the basics of Linux was breaking 3 installations and running random scripts from stack overflow without really knowing what they do.
I don't want this the way for new people to learn Linux. There must be a better way. But I don't know which one. People who think you can't ask questions because your basics are missing should shut the fuck up and go to 4chan or so.
You can use Bash if you want, but it's not a necessity
I would argue and say at minimum you should be comfortable with Bash and the file system , otherwise if you spend a year running Linux and encounter some obscure error you’ll be totally clueless troubleshooting wise and might end up breaking something else.
"Anyway, here are terminal commands you don't understand." and after asking for clarification on said terminal commands, you are quite rudely told to read The Manual - which seems to be some kind of a holy book for these bizarre creatures - without explaining in any way whatsoever which part of which manual you should be "reading". Thankfully, only every command ever created by anyone since the very conception of these systems - which was some 50 years ago in the seventies, in a university of a country you don't live in, written in a language you don't possibly even understand all that well, possibly by someone who also didn't know the language all that well - is discussed at length and in an impenetrably obtuse manner by many different parts of many different manuals, with helpful references to other commands and concepts you also don't understand, but which are all varying levels of essential knowledge for understanding some of these commands, while different levels for others. Also if you do not grasp the essential knowledge, you might completely fuck up your system. It seems that the philosophy in playing Dwarf Fortress is found in trying to use certain types of Linux distros, mostly frequented by massive nerds with hugely inflated egos: losing is fun! Because why else would I still be using Arch (btw)? But in any case: Read the Fucking Manual (rtfm to you as well, brother)
My ego isn't that big..
I chose Arch (in 2011) because
- Terminals make me look like hackerman
- I wanted to nerd out and learn the Linux ecosystem
- My engineer friends were Arch evangelists
I do catch myself saying "just read the manual", but not in a hostile way I think. When you're already in a terminal, once you get used to manuals, it's very accessible and it's quick to get what you need.
However, that usually requires you to know what you're looking for quite specifically, and that is something you can only learn through experience and study.
I'm very happy with my choice and the whole "you can easily fuck up your system" thing also works in reverse - you can just as easily fix your system. I've made a few mistakes over the years but nothing that I couldn't reverse. Just make sure you're not fiddling with partitions and boot loaders during work hours..
There is a manual pre-installed on your machine for most commands available. You just type man and the name of the thing you want the manual for. Many commands also have a --help option that will give you a list of basic options.
I should point out this isn't Linux specific either. Many of these commands come from Unix or from other systems entirely. macOS has a similar command line system actually. It's more that Linux users tend to use and recommend the command line more. Normally because it's the way of doing things that works across the largest number of distributions and setups, but also because lots of technical users prefer command line anyway. Hence why people complain about Windows command lines being annoying. I say command lines because they actually have two of them for some odd reason. Anyway I hope this helped explain why things are the way they are.
GUIs are just terminal wrappers. Idk what to tell you, man
A lot of things are easier to do even for experts with gui, as you might need to type 30 lines for what you could do in 1-2 clicks
In the 15 years of me using Linux as my main system both for work and for fun, I have never experienced this situation. Never. I seriously don't know what you guys doing that not only requires you to type 30 lines of commands - insane amount of commands, you can setup a complicated server from scratch with this amount if commands - that can also be accomplished with two clicks.
Give me at least couple of examples, I'm very curious
I don't know if this applies but I did the switch to Linux a coupls weeks ago (To Linux Mint, because beginner friendly).
I'm curious with tech stuff but I'm not tech savvy in any way shape or form.
Thing is, the in way to connect to my Google drive sucked hard. On windows I would install the program and be able to access it like any drive. On Mint there is a GUI way to connect to your Google account, but it is so slow that it took a PDF solid 2 minutes to load each page. So no way to work with that.
So I needed a solution, which I found by installing rclone and setting it up.
That was a stupid amount of work and command lines I realy did not understand at all (this was my time using the console).
Yeah, the way Google doesn't make a Linux version of their product is indeed bad. They say it's because they want us all using their web version, and it would be probably even a valid excuse, but they make their soft for Windows, but not for Linux for some reason.
Thankfully they are in minority, and you can just ditch them and use different, more user-friendly clouds. Or, as you mentioned, cool working tools that community made for free, since Google is apparently incapable.
Edit: back to the previous point, you managed to do it first time without help, which kind of confirms my point. There is a Russian proverb "while the eyes are afraid, the hands are already at work", which is very apt here.
If a GUI can be built which accomplished something in 1-2 clicks, then there's very likely a CLI which can do the same with 1-2 commands, as CLIs are easier to implement than GUIs...
I run into the issue that after using Linux for so long, I forget that the basics of using the system aren’t just common knowledge. Telling someone to cat a file sounds like gibberish to most people and that’s easy to forget.
There are also a lot of people out there who want to be hand held through every little thing which is the worst way to learn anything. A calm sea never made a skilled sailor, some stuff you gotta just figure out on your own.
Ngl, I forgtet command options all the time. Its usually just a case of looking at the man to refresh my memory.
I need Emacs, a terminal emulator and a web browser to be productive, but basically nothing else. (Give me my tiling window manager, with a config I haven’t bothered to update the past few years for an extra 3% bump in efficiency.)
It’s weird, I know how all the components in a modern desktop environment work and fit together but I don’t want to care anymore. I want someone to hold my hand, manage my system and make all the thinking go away, right up until I ssh out from my desktop and out into a fleet of servers and start spewing out esoteric commands and orchestration.
My dream is to have someone manage my desktop for me, so I don’t even have to think about it.
I don't understand this post. OP mad the free support not up to their standards?
Since the standard is: "Don't be assholes" I think thats quite allright :-)
Sometimes it's easier to assemble what you need from parts than go adding/removing stuff from somewhat monolithic solutions, tho.
Most people just want a thing to work though. One member of my family has issues with her iPhone at the moment where the signal is just all over the place. Sometimes not able to receive calls, sometimes not able to make them, sometimes inaudible when the call is made. She's googled and gone to apple tech support who have given her a list of basic troubleshooting tasks to do, stuff like checking settings. She said to me "I don't want to go hunting for these things I just want to hand it to someone and they can make it work!"
Linux and computer enthusiasts are happy to assemble things as we need them because the problem solving stuff is satisfying to us, for other people it's just a slog.
the problem solving stuff is satisfying to us
Yeah, that stopped being a factor decades ago. I now hate it just as much as any iPhone user. There are reasons beyond "I like how it makes my brain feel".
I saw this other day and this happened with me too. I was having issues with brave and someone really asked why do u need brave
Gnome and KDE, what's the 3rd logo
Cinnamon, most commonly known from Mint. There are also Fedora and Ubuntu spins for it.
Been using Linux for 10 years and this is the first time I've seen the cinnamon logo lol
Cinnamon (Mint's DE) I think
Yea I'm wondering that too
You don't need too much GUI, it's usually just bloat. A lot of race cars have their interior ripped out for less weight, I consider using the terminal as much as possible the same vein. The terminal also acts as a gatekeeping mechanism in Linux, I don't want normies ruining the Linux ecosystem, all the problems of tech blamed on unmanaged capitalism by Ed Zitron and Cory Doctorow are actually all the result of woke DEI Code of Conducts, go watch Brian Lunduke to learn more.
Yes, it's going to be uncomfortable for a few months, maybe even a few years. You might get called a lot of bad words along the way, maybe even get doxxed and harassed IRL, but it's just normal human behavior. Nowadays I'm writing my Python and Javascript code on Arch Linux using neovim, on a 65% artisan mechanical keyboard, and I've set my own custom shortcuts for everything. In my free time, I harass Rust, Swift, Go, D, etc. developers, and call them weak and pathetic for wanting to do system development using a language with both memory safety and without janky design that made sense on an old mainframe with limited memory. You either use C/C++, maybe assembly, for system development, or a bloated scripting language for memory safety on top of a C/C++ system!
Just give me your rdp access. I promise I will not abuse it.
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