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Obvious as it may sound, people with authoritarian beliefs hiding behind free speech actually consider it as a weakness akin empathy. It allows losers like them to amplify their reach despite not being in power. They abandon their "free speech absolutist" postures the moment they think they are in power.

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[-] comfy@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 hour ago

Yes.

Fascist ideologies, like Nazism, are explicitly anti-liberalist. They don't believe in the very concept of liberties. They explicitly write down on paper why they believe democracy and freedom is a failure. So, when you see one pulling the free speech card, they're simply trying to appeal to your beliefs, or society's beliefs, to give themselves a platform. It's inherently insincere, they're mocking you.

Nazis have to act like this. History has shown us, without doubt, how repulsive their plans are both in theory and in practice, so until they have power, they cannot show their true colors. They can't just be honest and play "might is right" yet because communities would just do the right thing and violently extinguish their movement (including, but not limited to, punching them on sight). So they must hide behind society's privileges, the rights and freedoms of liberalism. They can enjoy police protection at protests to save them from the people they work to have killed, they can sue people for collecting intelligence on them and getting them fired, they can just point out liberalist hypocracy if their freedoms are violated, but listen to leaks and how they organize behind closed doors to know that's simply opportunistic cowardice.

[-] st33lb0ne@lemmy.world 1 points 48 minutes ago* (last edited 47 minutes ago)

They believe in ¨I speak¨

[-] HawlSera@lemm.ee 25 points 4 hours ago

First thing Free Speech Absolutionist Elon did when taking over Twitter was making it so that cisgender is a slur, but the n-word is not

[-] SabinStargem@lemmings.world 4 points 3 hours ago

I am a free speech absolutist. Evil people should say what they want to do...so that I can tell them what will happen if they try to ICE my neighbors. 🔫 🩸

The thing about modern discourse on social media platforms like Reddit, is that bigots get to threaten people all they like. If a good person mentions Luigi or what should happen to Musk, they get banned. THIS is the real threat to democracy.

It is best if the bad guys don't work in secret. They should expose themselves to be monsters early and often, with decent folk making it clear that evil positions deserve equally merciless responses. I think part of why the Republicans have been so successful, is because they feel like "winners" to people who value assertiveness. Democrats almost always holds true to decorum and norms - which gives them the impression of being "weak" losers.

Some people vote for the strong, because by extension, it makes themselves feel strong. I think this explains why some people simply never listen to any amount of reason or evidence - they perceive the world through feelings, not thought. This is why "rough" speaking democrats might hold value in our society, because they can speak the same language, while still holding the values of goodness close to their heart.

To put it simply, a lot of Republicans might cease supporting Trump, if the following entered their mind: "They are stronger than me. I don't want to get punched! Let's stay home."

...it isn't terrific, but I think some people are simply biased towards authority. Be it good or evil.

[-] bananoidandroid@feddit.nu 1 points 9 minutes ago

I agree with your point in general but free speech is a right that is only a protection from consequences from the government and does not include private coorporations or citizens. If someone start spewing racist remarks in my house, i'll ask them to leave. The same applies for reddit and other platforms. We can freely move to a place where our speech is allowed. We can't just force every single platform or every gathering allowing all speech at all times.

[-] RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 27 points 8 hours ago

Their version of free speech is to prevent you from contradicting the lies they continuously spew and then paint your rebuttal as an attack on their rights to spew them. They’re the victim of leftist propaganda.

Here is what free speech is:

Fuck the USA, Fuck Russia, Fuck China, Fuck France, Fuck the UK.

Here is what free speech is NOT: [Racial Slurs]

[-] OrloNorppa@sopuli.xyz 135 points 19 hours ago

It's insane to me that somehow free speech has been successfully twisted into a dog whistle to basically just spread disinformation, actively call for extermination of minority groups and openly attack and threaten other people. That shit is not free speech those are malicious actions - and they should absolutely not be tolerated under some vague guise of free speech.

[-] rockSlayer 37 points 19 hours ago

Precisely. That's why the most important mantra we can recite is "this is not normal". No matter how normalized it gets, fascism is not normal.

[-] melpomenesclevage@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 15 hours ago

the conflation of 'normal' with 'okay' is sickening to me. unfortunately, this is normal now.

and that should set off fucking air raid sirens in every single person's head.

[-] yesman@lemmy.world 25 points 18 hours ago

If you pay attention to the reactionaries, they always steal ideas from the left. Fake news, media bias? That's Noam Chomsky. Incels stole the idea of critical examination of gender from feminists. Racists are banning books on the theory that they target people based on their race.

That's why they're called reactionaries. They cannot organize and ideology or a movement except as an opposition to the left dragging society forward. And like anyone motivated by spite and envy, they study us closely.

[-] wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 16 hours ago

Which is intensely frustrating for people who actually care about free speech. Can't talk about it without setting off everyone's "that guy is probably a nazi" alarms.

It's absolutely an intentional trap to attempt to get people to support moves against free speech by tainting the concept through negative association.

We shouldn't tolerate hate speech. But I'm concerned about where we end up in a few decades if the concept of free speech keeps the current connotations.

And people might consider even this comment as sealioning or something.

Meanwhile we have people unironically using phrases like unalive and censoring swear words in screenshots so they don't trip the automated content filters on mainstream social media. That should be more concerning than people seem to take it. People joke about "literally 1984", but unalive is blatant newspeak.

[-] floofloof@lemmy.ca 11 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago)

This is what the fascists do: hijacking legitimate terms of discourse and abusing them so they become meaningless. It's a deliberate strategy to subvert their opponents' ability to talk about the issue by poisoning the terminology. See also what they've done with "fake news", "critical race theory" and "DEI".

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[-] ICastFist@programming.dev 10 points 13 hours ago

They abandon their “free speech absolutist” postures the moment ~~they think they are in power.~~ you ask them why they support malicious advertising, impersonation and pedophilia

Fix'd. Because those things would be protected under "absolute" freeze peach.

[-] Vertelleus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 23 points 15 hours ago

The only free speech they like is their own -- unopposed and the only thing heard.

[-] LadyAutumn 35 points 16 hours ago

Fascism is incompatible with any kind of freedom. Free speech is co-opted by conservatives and fascists so that they can promote bigotry without consequence. There is no reason that members of the KKK should be legally allowed to recruit people. That should be against the law. It should be against the law to promote xenophobia, racism, misogyny, and queerphobia. The only people who benefit from a system where you can espouse those beliefs without legal consequence are bigots and fascists.

[-] melpomenesclevage@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago)

laws will never protect the people who need it. every community should be on the lookout for this shit. everything should turn against you when you do a fascism. if you want to spread fear of everything as an excuse to murder the weak to make you feel good, there should be no inch of the world where you are safe.

like, a lot of the nazi shit here in the united states WAS against the law. that didn't help. just a bunch of wrist slaps.

[-] Telorand@reddthat.com 9 points 15 hours ago

Communal action > government "protections"

Every time.

[-] Hubi@feddit.org 74 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago)

When our opponents say: "Yes, we used to grant you freedom of opinion", yes. You did, that is no reason why we should do the same to you! Your stupidity need not be contagious to us! [Laughter.] That you have given this to us - that is proof of how stupid you are! [Laughter.]

  • Joseph Goebbels
[-] rustyfish@lemmy.world 23 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago)

Goebbels must have felt really clever when he killed his children and wife. Right Goebbels?

Goebbels? (Gore)

Oh.

[-] Telorand@reddthat.com 9 points 15 hours ago

A better fate than what he deserved, IMO.

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[-] PotatoLibre@feddit.it 4 points 13 hours ago

That's why we have to treath them the same way they would treath us.

[-] orcrist@lemm.ee 1 points 5 hours ago

No, it doesn’t mean that. Think about what you are suggesting.

[-] PotatoLibre@feddit.it 1 points 9 minutes ago

Read the same story the other day. They missed Hitler's escalation believing he will never lie to such a point, until he did and then it was too late.

If someone has a dictatorship as a goal, you can't just fight under the democratic rules, especially if your system is not bullet proof.

I'm not saying "grab a gun", I'm saying there's not much time to act. Anyway, this gives me some hope:

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20190513-it-only-takes-35-of-people-to-change-the-world

[-] comfy@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

True. We should instead just use one bullet for each and be done with them, no point in copying their atrocities.

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[-] GenderNeutralBro@lemmy.sdf.org 33 points 18 hours ago

The far right are well-practiced at co-opting and twisting concepts. It's classic doublespeak.

It's why you have "Christians" who are staunchly opposed to feeding the hungry, or treating the sick. (See: school lunches.)

It's why "capitalism" now represents the complete lack of meaningful competition, when that competition is the only thing that ever made capitalism worthwhile in the first place. (See: Microsoft getting away scot-free after being found guilty of illegal, anticompetitive business practices all throughout the 90s.)

It's why "free speech" proponents are laser-focused on creating new and terrifying mechanisms for censorship. (See: *gestures widely*)

I could go on.

It's sad how little resistance has been made against this corruption. How easily our natural allies have been turned into our greatest enemies.

[-] melpomenesclevage@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 16 hours ago

christianity, since the roman empire adopted it at the very least, has been mostly a tool of appropriating warm fuzzy feelings and directing them towards a king.

capitalism was always been into lack of competition. it's not about markets, that's a more modern bullshit invention. it's about valuing ownership over labor. caring about the nobility rather than the peasants' labor, but with more contrivance.

mood on the free speech.

[-] nednobbins@lemm.ee 18 points 17 hours ago

Does anyone?

The closest I can think of to “real free speech absolutists” is the old-school doctrinal libertarians. Even they have limits on what they believe should be allowed and specifically state that contracts should be legally enforceable.

[-] orcrist@lemm.ee 1 points 5 hours ago

There are no absolutists, my friend. Everyone has limits.

[-] chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago)

You don't need to be an "absolutist" to believe in free speech. Open exchange of ideas is valuable. Not needing to be suspicious of everyone hiding what they really think out of fear is valuable. Censorship powers are very tempting to abuse and the consequences of their abuse are terrible, therefore they should be strictly limited. Believing in free speech can just be understanding this stuff and having a bias against shutting people up as a go-to solution.

[-] notsoshaihulud@lemmy.world 5 points 16 hours ago

yeah it's a philosophical question the answer to which changes with the times (like, does free speech/expression even mean the same thing in the 1700s as in the present era where "speech" is delivered and amplified by machines without even the necessity of direct human involvement).

[-] Irelephant@lemm.ee 23 points 19 hours ago

They only like free speech because it lets them claim to be censored.

[-] NOT_RICK@lemmy.world 20 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 19 hours ago)

Jean Paul Sarte articulates my feelings on this better than I ever could.

[-] notsoshaihulud@lemmy.world 22 points 19 hours ago

Interesting read.

They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The antisemites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert.

This is what we see these days. Trump and his followers lying is normalized, i.e., they are not "obliged to use words responsibly", whereas anybody argues against trumpists is.

They fear only to appear ridiculous or to prejudice by their embarrassment their hope of winning over some third person to their side.

This is what changed since then. They no longer fear being seen as ridiculous or stupid. They embrace it.

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[-] lordnikon@lemmy.world 11 points 18 hours ago

The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.

[-] SomeAmateur@sh.itjust.works 11 points 19 hours ago

They like free speech that doesn't get them immediately banned, not free speech for everyone else's ideas

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this post was submitted on 09 Mar 2025
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