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GitHub - LadybirdBrowser/ladybird: Truly independent web browser (github.com)

submitted 1 month ago by mesamunefire@lemmy.world to c/technology@lemmy.world

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[-] troed@fedia.io 352 points 1 month ago

Join our Discord server

crying in decentralization efforts

[-] harrys_balzac@lemmy.dbzer0.com 130 points 1 month ago

The Discord-based "support" makes it a "meh." The main devs alt-right BS makes it a "hard pass."

[-] Imhotep@lemmy.world 78 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Lemmy was created by a tankie, many of whose opinions I abhor.

As long as it's FOSS and doesn't inherently promote their beliefs, I will use the software.

I agree it's not great and I'd prefer if it weren't made by imbeciles

[-] prole 50 points 1 month ago

Tankies are annoying, but they're not on the same level as fascists.

[-] cmhe@lemmy.world 50 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

TBH, it is very difficult to me differentiating between the different flavors of authoritarians.

Maybe someone can make an easy to understand comparison matrix? You know, "Kills people because they have a different opinion.", "Suppresses minorities.", etc.

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[-] FundMECFSResearch 14 points 1 month ago

Both facists and tankies have genocided disabled people and selectively killed anarchists.

As a disabled anarchist, they end up seeming pretty similar to me.

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[-] RandomVideos@programming.dev 10 points 1 month ago

Is there any source for this?

[-] carotte 15 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

i know there was a thing at the beginning of the project where they wrote a lot of the documentation with masculine pronouns (assuming the reader was male), and when they were asked to change that for gender neutral pronouns, they said no because "they don’t want politics in their project"

beyond that however, idk if they eventually changed that or if they did other bad stuff

edit: here is a source

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[-] stardust@lemmy.ca 46 points 1 month ago

Why always discord.... Why!!!!

[-] prettybunnys@sh.itjust.works 11 points 1 month ago

because a turn key platform they don’t have to self host and maintain frees them up to do the work.

[-] Scrollone@feddit.it 19 points 1 month ago

Oh shit. I despise Discord, why not a normal forum?!

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[+] EasternLettuce@lemm.ee 97 points 1 month ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

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[-] rickdg@lemmy.world 71 points 1 month ago

Looks like a confused Swedish dude that when questioned about his use of English pronouns defaults to not wanting to get political. Is there more besides a misguided decision to avoid relevant political topics?

I think we should chastise people that insist on not getting political, but not necessarily boycott everything they do. Or at least we should apply the same moral demands to Mozilla, Apple, Microsoft or Google when choosing which browsers to support. Which of them is the least bad?

[-] prole 37 points 1 month ago

There is nothing political about acknowledging peoples' existence.

[-] Scrollone@feddit.it 30 points 1 month ago

Existence? Because somebody used a wrong pronoun?

[-] prole 24 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Language is extremely powerful. This is all part of the erasure (an integral part btw).

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[-] pogmommy 20 points 1 month ago

You're right, words are meaningless and language has no bearing on society at large. after all, fuiebt eidiowb rhe efifo quifopim.

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[-] rickdg@lemmy.world 12 points 1 month ago

Don’t think we should be scared of the word “political” or “ideology”.

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[-] cupcakezealot 50 points 1 month ago

ugh transphobia rots people's brains

it's not too hard to just be a decent person ppl

[-] Hawk@lemmy.dbzer0.com 21 points 1 month ago

I see zero reason to out the "transphobic" label on the dev.

Think and read before labelling people.

[-] dumnonii@piefed.social 16 points 1 month ago

I can't see anything about this on DuckDuckGo. Do you have a link?

[-] RayJW@sh.itjust.works 33 points 1 month ago

https://mkultra.monster/tech/2024/07/03/serenityos-and-ladybird

This was a little „write-up“ back when everything became more public.

[-] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 32 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I'm surprised this got any kind of attention.

Here's the turn of events from my perspective:

Someone submits a 1-line PR changing the gender used in a code comment
PR rejected on the grounds that the change is "politically motivated"
Submitter got mad, and proposed removing the rule against "politically motivated" changes, calling it "white supremacist," which is closed
Someone wrote a blog post about it

Here's my analysis:

Stupid change - don't make PRs that simply correct an irrelevant typo in a comment somewhere; some people do this to put stuff on a resume (look at how much FOSS work I do!), and it just wastes everyone's time
Stupid response - it should've been rejected because it's a useless change, not because it's "politically motivated"
Stupid proposal - do you really want to waste a bunch of time fighting over wording in a comment? Because that's the kind of crap you get without a rule like this.
This is all about an irrelevant change to a comment? Why is this getting so much attention?

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[-] DreamlandLividity@lemmy.world 29 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

"We don't accept ideologically motivated changes" = White supremacist language... Yeah, sounds about like what I expected...

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[+] EasternLettuce@lemm.ee 25 points 1 month ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

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[-] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 23 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Someone else posted a writeup about it.

It wasn't in documentation, but a code comment. No user would see this.

One part was a rejected change on the README, which was trying to remove this "white supremacist language":

## On ideologically motivated changes

This is a purely technical project. As such, it is not an appropriate arena to advertise your personal politics or religious beliefs. Any changes that appear ideologically motivated will be rejected.

Someone changing "he" to "they" (original PR that started all this) in a comment as their only change could absolutely be seen as "politically motivated." My understanding is that if changing the comment was part of some larger useful change, it would be fine (as would using "she" or "they" in a new comment), but just changing the gender of a pronoun in a comment is a useless change.

If the comment said "she," would someone have been motivated to make this change? Probably not. Should changing this from "she" to some other pronoun (he or they) also be rejected? Yes, on the same grounds as changing it from "he," it's not a useful change and just wastes everyone's time. If you're in the code already, then go ahead, correct silly language like this if you care to.

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[-] gnygnygny@lemm.ee 11 points 1 month ago

Totally excessive in view of the facts.

There are so few alternative browsers and the collapse of the privacy is so global. That seems to me a minor point in relation to the goal.

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[-] ambitiousslab@lemmy.ml 77 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I donate to Ladybird and Servo, and I hope they succeed. We need serious competition and a check on Mozilla (not to mention Chrome and Safari).

That said, I'm sad that neither Ladybird or Servo are licensed under strong copyleft licenses. We need user-oriented browsers now more than ever, and strong copyleft enables that. I worry that, even if these engines are successful, they will be co-opted by proprietary browsers and eventually superseded by them.

This happened before - both Chrome and Safari ultimately derive from KHTML, Konqueror's browser engine. If KHTML had been licnesed under the GPL instead of the LGPL, Chrome and Safari (and not just their engines) may have been free software today. Or, at the very least, it would have been much more difficult for Apple and Google to get started.

That said, I wish Ladybird the best. There donation = no influence policy is excellent, and I really, really hope they can stick to it in the long term.

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[-] the_q@lemm.ee 73 points 1 month ago

To go along with the alt right stuff, one of their major donors is Shopify.

[-] superfes@lemmy.world 69 points 1 month ago

Good, the world is in dire need of competition in this arena.

[-] troed@fedia.io 22 points 1 month ago

Alright, read up on it a bit more. Sadly the language choices (C++ now, maybe Swift later) rubs me the wrong way for something that needs to be incredibly secure against attacks. I really really support additional browser engines, but likely not this one.

Thus I think Servo is a better choice for those looking to contribute. IMHO.

[-] LeFantome@programming.dev 21 points 1 month ago

Quite happy to see Servo coming along again. I am still excited for Ladybird and it seems more likely to deliver a truly viable browser sooner.

I am not a Swift dev but I think it has decent memory safety as well. I think it is one of the reasons Ladybird is moving to it. They evaluated Rust and decided it lacked the OOP features they needed.

The C++ that Ladybird writes is also very good. They have their own standard library (written for SerenityOS) which is very modern including memory safety and security. Still C++ though of course.

[-] mesamunefire@lemmy.world 18 points 1 month ago

A good breakdown on their progress: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43200604

[-] aproposnix@scribe.disroot.org 16 points 1 month ago

We definitely need more competition in the browser space, I just wish it wasn't using such a permissive license as the BSD.

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[-] Bogus5553@lemm.ee 13 points 1 month ago

I'll be great. The big question is how long it's left until a stable release

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this post was submitted on 28 Feb 2025

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