Blasphemy laws being expanded in 2023. Not what I think people would have predicted in, say, 1990.
Governments should not be allowed to burn books.
Private citizens should be allowed to burn any books they own.
Neither governments nor private citizens should be allowed to harm or threaten people who burn their own damn books.
Example: you can purchase a dozen copies of "On The Origin of Species", burn them, and I will very happily not threaten to behead you. Easy.
“The bill will make it punishable, for example, to burn the Quran or the Bible in public. It will only aim at actions in a public place or with the intention of spreading in a wider circle,” Hummelgaard said
Hummelgaard told a news conference that the recent protests were “senseless taunts that have no other purpose than to create discord and hatred.”
I agree with Hummelgaard. Those "protests" are used to create hatred. Even though it is also for me not comprehensible how people can be so sensitive about this, we all know the reaction it provokes. And even though we don't agree and comprehend those feelings, we can still respect those feelings and just not senselessly create disruption. And hey.... You can still burn as many Qurans in your private oven as you want.
The intent is secondary to the effect. If certain muslim people cannot put their religious sensibilities BELOW the secular human rights of their fellow country men, they LITERALLY need to leave. They are literally bad for us, and our social, secular order. EXACTLY like the hardcore christians are bad for human rights in the USA.
“The bill will make it punishable, for example, for people of the same sex to kiss in public. It will only aim at actions in a public place or with the intention of spreading in a wider circle,” Hummelgaard said
I agree with Hummelgaard. Those “protests” are used to create hatred. Even though it is also for me not comprehensible how people can be so sensitive about this, we all know the reaction it provokes. And even though we don’t agree and comprehend those feelings, we can still respect those feelings and just not senselessly create disruption. And hey… You can still kiss as many people of the same sex in private as you want.
This isn't an exaggeration: a few weeks ago in Ottawa we had anti-LGBT protests where rainbow flags were burned down -- guess who was there? And while many of us were offended and appalled, nobody was threatened or beheaded in response, and we didn't have politicians trying to pass a new law forbidding the burning of rainbow flags either.
The whole point of this is that in Europe we have fought for centuries in order to establish liberal democracies where freedom of speech and the separation of church and state are enshrined. We must not appease extremists who achieve change with threats of violence. There is a name for that.
In a democracy the act of burning a book, or a flag, is a canary in the coal mine: you know there is trouble when it dies.
The message is simple: we don't threaten people who have different ideas.
We can not have a modern society where people feel strongly about religion. And there is really no point in appeasement of fundamentalists - they don't want a compromise they allays want it all.
I personally really do not like religion. And if you buy a quran and burn it at home, nothing will happen. Nobody will care.
But what is your desired outcome, if you take the book that is holy to some, and burn it infront of their eyes? There is only one answer to this and that answer is the reason for these laws. You cannot go to a pride parade and burn rainbow flags in front of their eyes either. It is rather obvious why.
You cannot go to a pride parade and burn rainbow flags in front of their eyes either. It is rather obvious why.
What are you talking about? This is pretty much what happened in Ottawa a few weeks ago, so there is no need to hypothesize. What happened to them? Nothing at all.
Queer folks don't behead Muslims. Queer folks do not stone Muslims.
Soooooo, did Danish government just announce that they will fold and accept any demand if enough people, not necessarily even living in Denmark, make threats of terrorism and murder? Because it kinda sounds like they did...
Woder if it would also work for, I don't know, universal basic income, 3-day weekends or lower taxes?
How about banning public book burning in general? Not a lot of good memories related to that.
Want to keep burning books? Have waste collection services provide a pickup point. Then they can do it in some industrial incinerator so you'll have your book burned but without providing media with an easy outrage (unless you wanted outrage?).
Book burning seems to be a tool of right wing extremism, even when it's used against right wing extremists of some other kind, there's very little benefit to the society.
Also obligatory, fuck organized religion.
Fuck religion. Time and time again eroding our rights. Shame on the Danish government who is bending down to violence and superstition.
I don't think that applies here. Why would you ever burn a Quran IN PUBLIC? If you are not religious, or subscribe to other religions, why would you even own a quran? Quran burning in public has only one purpose, to provoke hate. Same as burning flags in public. Or hating certain groups of people in public. None of it is allowed or ok to do.
If you burn that thing at home or throw it in the trash, nobody will care. Otherwise it just falls into the "incite violence" category of things, because that is exactly the thing you are doing.
If moslems then go into a rage and be violent themselves, that isn't ok either, that should be clear.
You should be allowed to display your beliefs in public, regardless of how enraged they might make others. You shouldn't be allowed to make direct threats, but anything else should be fair game.
Kinda unsettles me a bit. To be clear, I don't want violence. But I also don't think that burning an object should be punishable. And that goes for stuff like my country flag, my pride flag, my bible. People should have the freedom of expression, even if their expression is a bad take or a waste of paper and nylon.
I just wish everyone could be more chill. Half the people need to quit being assholes, and the other half need to take 12 seconds to calm down and not freak out over something small. We have much bigger things to freak out about that we should be (constructively) freaking out about, like the collapse of entire food chains due to overfishing.
Sending clear message that violence is an acceptable and working political tool. Climate protesters need to up their game.
There seems to be deep misunderstanding why this is troublesome.
The Government burning any book is bad.
A private citizen should be allowed to burn any book he/she wants.
You can still burn the Quran at home according to the law.
Thats a very thin defence. The point is that private citizens should be allowed to burn their own belongings as a form of protest/expression. That's effectively been banned now.
You're not allowed to be naked in public. Doesn't matter if you want to protest jeans. You can't be naked.
You're not allowed to take a shit on the curb outside of whatever you want to protest either.
You're not allowed to burn flags of forgein nations.
plenty of expressions that can be used to protest are banned. What's so different here? You can still burn as many books as you want in your own backyard. You just can't do it at the town square.
And as a final note. It's a proposition. It hasn't been voted on. How about you save your outrage until they've actually decided on what to do?
Noone is talking about indecent exposure or defecating in public, we're taking about burning your own possession.
I'd also argue a private citizen should be allowed to burn any flag they want. It's the same thing as with books.
The significant difference is that public nakedness (which isn't specifically illegal in most European countries) and shitting on the curb have concrete consequences for others. The laws are there to protect others from unwanted sexual attention (exhibitionism) and literal disease (shit on the street).
The limit for the freedoms of one person should be the safety and freedom of others. Burning books does not infringe on other's safety or freedom.
Finally: it's stupidly easy to circumvent this. The same provocative assholes that are burning Qurans now, will just shift to other forms of desecration or other ways of offending Muslims. If the goal is to prevent protests that provoke authoritarian or extremistic regimes, you're just going to have to make that the law, because laws like this will just make people protest in another, equally provoking way.
You just can't do it as a form of protest, which should be protected under free speech
A private citizen will still be allowed and protected to burn any book he or she wishes, in private.
It's an exceptionally bad idea to get the state involved in picking which interpretations of a religion are going to be defended.
Cyprus pretty much has this kind of law, and the Chruch loves tormenting even dissenting Christian theologians or prominent people of faith who disagree with the Church with it, let alone critics who aren't part of the religion at all.
Denmark over here negotiating with terrorists.
Negotiating? I'm thinking more of a word that rhymes with "urrender".
How about no?
Anybody who publicly mocks or insults the religious doctrine or worship of any religious community lawfully existing in this country will be punished by fine or imprisonment for up to 4 months
So Denmark got this Blashemy Law off of the books in 2017, and they're ready to bring it back.
Full title: "Danish government to put forward law making burning Quran and other religious texts illegal "
Wow, giving in to the threats of people from another side of the planet. Plus don't they really have any idea what it says about non-Muslim people? Especially women? And of course children!?
I think it’s a good idea. No one gets anything from publicly burning a book other than maybe demonstrate some kind of opinion?
And it’s a good and easy way to prevent terrorists bombing themselves into heaven in some danish city.
Of course there’s nothing wrong with burning the quran but if it helps to reduce terrorism I am all for it.
Isn't this just surrendering to terrorism? Isn't it bad that forms of free speech get banned because others threatens to kill?
Yes, let alone how capitulating emboldens them. These politicians should've been shoved in to more lockers in high school, because giving in to a bully just gets you more bully attention.
Sooo... other countries burning flags of other nations in public is okay, but this is not?
Even if this has whataboutism-character and I appreciate the take of "making it better, even if others don't", I can't deny there is some irony to that.
Can they still draw Mohammed though?
This is the best summary I could come up with:
This comes after a string of public desecrations of the Quran by a handful of anti-Islam activists sparked angry demonstrations in Muslim countries.
It will only aim at actions in a public place or with the intention of spreading in a wider circle,” Hummelgaard said, adding that it would be punishable by fines or up to two years in prison.
Hummelgaard told a news conference that the recent protests were “senseless taunts that have no other purpose than to create discord and hatred.”
Denmark’s government has repeatedly distanced itself from the desecrations, but has insisted that freedom of expression is one of the most important values in Danish society.
Last month, he said the government would seek to legally prevent burnings of the Quran or other religious scriptures, saying it “only serves the purpose of creating division in a world that actually needs unity.”
The three parties in the governing coalition control 88 seats and are also supported by the four lawmakers representing the semi-independent Danish territories of Greenland and the Faeroe Islands.
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