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The US can't sign a peace treaty on behalf of Ukraine. They're not mandated to negotiate by Ukraine.
The US can stop supporting Ukraine but that doesn't force the Ukrainians to stop fighting, or Europe to stop supporting Ukraine
Yes, absolutely. The Russian military is still a piece of shit using scared conscripts and outdated equipment. As long as the EU remains willing to fund the Ukrainian defense, they'll keep fighting.
The real question is whether the EU will still be around. This weekend's election in Germany is going to be of critical importance.
Is Germany okay rn?
Nah, depends on your position. Our departing government wasn't too great, because one party (neoliberal shits called the FDP) sabotaged it from day one and the biggest party, the SPD had (and still has) a very bad leadership. So because people want change and are apparently not able to make rational choices, they will most probably give many voices to the conservative (think Democrats in the US) party, which will make an absolute piece of shit (Faschofritze Merz) their Chancellor. So from a US or russian perspective, we are totally fine, but I really fear this sunday (voting day)
I wish you and your country luck. I've always thought very highly of Germany and its people. I don't want to see Germany go down the same path the US is going down.
Ukraine can survive without american support. Russia has the GDP of Spain. The EU has the resources to help Ukraine, we just need
- Political will
- Ability to produce(or procure) stuff for Ukraine
For the last 100 years, everyone was dependent on each other, since we were all allied, it made less sense for every country to reinvent the wheel. Now the EU will need to create new production capabilities and that takes time and money. This will have a noticeable negative effect to the quality of life of europeans so the europeans will need to be willing to deal with that.
South Korea has a strong defence industry that can help cover the gap, especially if things are chill in SouthEast Asia.
If the EU can guarantee the safety of Greece(maybe with the creation of an EU army or through stronger defence treaties), Greece has a lot of military equipment that could potentially be sent to Ukraine, especially if Turkey is cool. Greece for example has more Leopard 2 tanks than any other country(including Germany).
I think if the EU sends troops to Ukraine, the EU will need to completely commit to that. The war in Ukraine is rough and very different than any other war, especially the wars western forces have fought in the last 50 years. So you cant half ass it and send a couple thousand soldiers to die there, you need to commit with proper air support, etc. This escalation needs to be managed carefully.
The EU needs to start pumping nukes and developing its missile program. Without the american nuclear shield, the EU needs its own. There is a reason that China is pumping nukes like crazy, because they are way behind the americans and russians. MAD is the only way to de-escalate and prevent a nuclear war.
Most of the aforementioned cost is these nukes/missile and building capabilities(stealth planes) programs. Helping Ukraine is cheap.
I'm worried, I'm afraid to say. Our government has been compromised, and the republic is dead, we will have no more legitimate elections and it's likely (imo) that our legislature will soon dissolve. I wish I could say that we were ever the America you were taught about, but it was always a farce. I'm almost to middle age and I've never once seen my country try to be the place it tells itself it is. It's always been a place that beats its chest while sitting on the couch and reminiscing about how cool it was on the high school sports team; that steps on the weak and the poor to satisfy the rich and the powerful. I've always believed we could do better, that we could be the place we tell ourselves we are, but we never choose to do the hard work to be that place.
Though Ukraine will likely persist as an ulcer for the remainder of Putin's life. The good news is twofold:
-
we still haven't cracked immortality, and one day probably quite soon, Putin's number will be called.
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Europe is stepping up to the plate now that the US has shit its pants and is currently waddling off the field. Take my energy, Goku!
Europe is going to be the wildcard. If the US sides with Russia and says “take this deal or you get nothing from us”, it will basically be up to Europe to carry Ukraine. If they’re willing to do this, Ukraine can tell the US no and move forward with self preservation. Like you said though, Europe’s military resources aren’t what the US has. So time will tell how it pans out. Just keep and eye on Europe to see what the chances will be.
Didn't they JUST announce 700billion dollars in military funding yesterday?
No, not right now. There was a comment from the German foreign minister saying that Europe should apply the same amount of funding as it did against covid, and that was about €670 billion ($700 billion). However the discussion is ongoing and Britain and France have both just said they're willing to put troops on the ground to protect a ceasefire, so hope is not lost
It should also be pointed out that Germany saying anything at all about foreign military intervention is a big deal, given their longstanding policy against it.
No, they have been discussing it. They wont make any announcement until after German elections.
What happens when the US decides to arm Russia instead? You know how much they love genocide
We've been through this shit before. Multiple times, in fact, over centuries. We'll get through it, as we've done before. It will likely take time. It will certainly take hell of an effort. But we will.
I'm sorry, but I don't see it. The century of American supremacy is coming to a close. You may not want to admit it, because everyone in the US has been thought about American exceptionalism since they started school. China will rise, as will Europe possibly. I think Russia is failing as well. Its current lashing out is the end of their term as a great power.
The US is a big country, and the fall will be slow, but I don't think there is a way to stop it now. I suspect that future historians will trace it back to the Nixon era. Come to think of it, every Republican president since then has also been really, really shitty when it came to preserving the health of the democracy.
Rockerface is Ukrainian, not American.
Being a seemingly temporary non-nation, Americans don't always understand that people don't usually just give up and accept conquest. If a people continue to distinguish themselves strongly enough without being literally wiped out or assimilated, they will survive annexation until the next opportunity for rebellion or freedom. Ireland resisted Britain for 800 years - a few years in the shadows of dictators until ordinary Russians grow balls/tits again isn't necessarily the end of Ukraine.
Being Ukrainian puts a completely different spin on it. My comment still holds true for Americans, but I would rather not see Ukrainians ground under the heel of another dictator, especially one enabled by the stupidification of the United States.
'This was not the America I was thought about.'
You might have been thought a little bit of propaganda.
My opinion is Ukraine and EU can kick Russia’s ass as long as they ramp up military production. Ukraine’s army tech went from 20+ years old soviet Kalashnikov stockpiles leftovers to domestically produced drones which dominate battlefield. They can and will increase production. The real question is US reckless enough to ease sanctions on Russia or worse start selling military/dual purpose goods. While Ukraine can withstand demoralized and economically crippled Russia. Ukraine will definitely lose if things get somewhat better for Russian economy and politics. What is more scary is what will happen with US-EU relationships. That would literally be US-EU proxy war.
I think we are. If you can think of something awful for us to do, we're already on our way to doing it. We're probably a month out from shooting garbage and nuclear waste into orbit on spaceX rockets.
As a european working in the weapon industry, I love reading american people thinking we make no weapons or the weapons we make are worse. We even sold some ships to the US lol. American military is the best, but not necesarily for quality, but for the sheer amount (aka quantity) coming from how much money you put in there. And a lot of money is spent buying other systems...
I'm not trying to diminish the quality or importance of the French military, the only EU country with an independent industrial military complex, but as of 2025 USAF has 385 operative F-35 and another 1,350 on order. Many NATO allies are procuring this fighter. This is a 5th generation fighter, the Dassault Rafale and the Dassault Mirage 2000 are 4th generation. Currently, no 5th generation fighters are being produced in the EU.
Unpopular opinion, but the Americans have better quality airframes and produce more. On a wide EU-Russia conflict the EU would still depend on US made weaponry. Sad but true.
Which should be a reason good enough to create an EU wide military industrial complex and make your own 5th and 6th generation fighters and your own defense systems.
But the EU is eternally disunited.
As a european working in the weapon industry, I love reading american people thinking we make no weapons or the weapons we make are worse.
American exceptionalism has been a major feature of the Americans self image for many generations.
It's really tiring living beside them and having to hear them constantly blathering about it.
Keep in mind that it is not just arms and money, but also Trump will cut off intelligence, and Musk will start pulling Starlink.
There is the hope of that asteroid hitting earth.
If this shit is what qualifies as the “end times,” we are all going to be standing around in the afterlife looking like
It's seems incredibly unlikely to me that Ukraine will cease to exist as a country, even without American support I can't see it being annexed entirely.
It will, however, probably be forced to make some fairly brutal concessions to Russia, including territorial ones.
Once US funds dry up, Ukraine must rely solely on European money, which is barely a drip feed compared to Bidens firehouse.
Russia can take over the entire country of Ukraine within ten years and millions of Russian conscripted men killed since they have an infinite supply of tanks, money and people willing to take the risk of death for money to send home and feed their families.
which is barely a drip feed compared to Bidens firehouse
Europe has given Ukraine more than America. Source
Biden's last package closed the gap a fair bit, but Europe is still the bigger source of support and definitely the more consistent one
Although the US has spent more on bangs than Europe, which has spent on bangs but also helmets and armour and transport.
I'll say what I've been saying for a while:
"Russia has nukes. Ukraine does not. The outcome was decided before it began."
Russia will stay in Ukraine as long as it is profitable to do so, and will leave when that is no longer the case or can get something big enough in response to convince them to leave. The US and EU can supply arms to Ukraine to make it less profitable but even so Russia has far more troops and resources than Ukraine. Unfortunately the US also hinged that support on Ukraine not negotiating for peace so they've been dug in extra deep in this and lost at least a generation of men now.
They weren't independent before and will not be after the war. Just the master will change, maybe.
Why are you on a Marxist Leninist instance promoting Russian fascist imperialism? That's an odd position to take.
I'm not? Also lemmy.ml isn't an instance about any of that.
You are claiming Ukraine isn’t independent and will just have a different master which is a very pro-Kremlin POV.
.ml- Marxist Leninism
So back to my question about why you would support this…
Are you arguing that doing everything the US wants, to the point of signing away 50% of every cent made from your natural resources, some sort of freedom? The fact of the matter is that neutrality suited the people of Ukraine very well, but not NATO.
it suited them until they were invaded by Russia. Ukraine is independent and should be in NATO
They weren't independent since 2014
And now we are back to asking why you are pushing Kremlin talking points.
The Euromaidan was a coup orchestrated by the west, it'snot a matter of opinion, you just think it was a good thing.
No, the West aided Ukrainians who allied with the west. It isn't as if no one wanted tomove away from Russian influence/criminality.
You are literally justifying an imperialistic invasion for reasons I cannot comprehend.
NATO has been encircling Russia for decades. You just want to justify it as "people choosing democracy" when the fall of USAID and NED just shows that they were regime change operations orchestrated by the US. If peace was the point, the Minsk agreements would have been respected. If saving lives was the point, the UK wouldn't have told Zelensky to fight a war they couldn't win. Nothing about this conflict has been about ukrainian interests. It always was and still is about russian and american interests. You want to argue that what Russia is doing is imperialism, but it is the US that wishes to balkanize the country, and THAT is actual imperialism. But of course that wouldn't bother you.
Why do you think many of the nations that border Russia want protection from Russia? I’ll give you a hint it’s Russian nationalist superiority and their penchant for revanchism and imperialism.
Nothing Russia has done in Ukraine is justified. It is morally equivalent to the US invasion of Iraq in 2003.
You are defending the invasion and subjugation of a sovereign nation. Do not try to pretend you have any moral high ground.
Then why didn't they respect the two Minsk agreements?
this post was submitted on 20 Feb 2025
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