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Tank engine (lemmy.ml)
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[-] Kwakigra@beehaw.org 14 points 1 day ago

From Wikipedia:

The term "tankie" was originally used by dissident Marxist–Leninists to describe members of the Communist Party of Great Britain (CPGB) who followed the party line of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union (CPSU). Specifically, it was used to distinguish party members who spoke out in defence of the Soviet use of tanks to suppress the Hungarian Revolution of 1956 and the 1968 Prague Spring, or who more broadly adhered to pro-Soviet positions.

I've never understood why there is any confusion over the word "tankie." It applies to the pro-cop left. If a leftist believes that it's necessary for cops to beat minorities and dissidents into submission for their society to function, they're tankies. If they approach leftism in a way that does not involve state violence against civilians to enforce those ideas, they're not tankies. To me there isn't a lot of gray area.

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I don't think your second paragraph follows from the first. The cited revolts were largely fascist in origin, for example the Hungarian revolt had the fascists lynching Soviet Officials and freeing Nazis from prison in order to assist with lynching Soviet Officials. Calling them "dissidents" or pretending they were ethnic minorities is ridiculous. Not answering fascists lynchings with violence would be incredibly terrible.

The "rebels" were trained and supplied by MI6, and had marked the doors of Jews and Communists for extermination.

Really curious what a "non-tankie" would recommend doing in such a situation. Giving the Nazis that killed hundreds of people flowers?

[-] Kwakigra@beehaw.org 4 points 1 day ago

What you claimed is very believable to me, and I'm also prepared to believe that the reality of your claims is heavily censored in the English language. That being said I haven't been able to find evidence to support that the primary drivers of these respective uprisings were fascist or Western. I have only found evidence of other causes. I have no doubt opportunistic fascists and Western governments took advantage of these situations for their own benefit, but the origins of these situations seem to have been genuine domestic issues which were met with state violence causing the situation to escalate. Would you link me to your sources?

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

This is a decent overview of the background that led up to the events of 1956, and this is a decent overview of the darker side, where the lynchings happened. Content Warning: lynched corpses. Here is a source on MI6 training and arming the counterrevolutionaries. Those 3 articles give only the briefest overview of the events, but don't do the real buildup to them, their complexities, what the people actually supported, or the real character in any depth. If you want to actually take a deep dive, these are additional sources:

The History of the Working Class Movement in Hungary

1956 Counter-Revolution in Hungary

Others can offer more sources.

Overall, when it comes to geopolitical enemies of the United States in particular, it would not be a bad idea to treat your current understanding with extreme skepticism until you've investigated counter-sources as well. That doesn't mean the US always lies, in fact it frequently tells mostly the truth, but will distory either the quality or quantity of an event.

[-] Kwakigra@beehaw.org 4 points 1 day ago

Thank you for taking my request in good faith; this is what I was looking for. I'll be taking some time to look through these.

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 day ago

No problem! I try to be good faith, haha. There's a lot to the events in Hungary, Prague, and so forth, so there's a lot to dig into beyond what I provided.

[-] audrbox@beehaw.org 3 points 1 day ago

I've always thought of them as the communists who think communists are somehow uniquely immune to the "power corrupts" doctrine

[-] garbagebagel@lemmy.world 13 points 1 day ago
[-] starman2112@sh.itjust.works 18 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)
[-] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 day ago

Wikipedia has a good article about the term

If you think Hitler is bad, wait until you hear what he has to say about the soviets!

[-] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

But seriously this is an argument that has been over since before anyone alive today was ever born

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1872/10/authority.htm

authoritarianism = bad is literal baby brain

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

All it really boils down to is "supports AES," though. The article even says as much.

[-] DSTGU@sopuli.xyz 1 points 19 hours ago

I skimmed through the article and I have no clue what does being a tankie have to do with encryption algorithms

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 4 points 19 hours ago

Actually Existing Socialism. Cuba, Vietnam, China, Laos, the former USSR, etc.

[-] gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 20 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Just replace "woke" with "russian".

[-] VinesNFluff@pawb.social 10 points 1 day ago

Whoever taught liberals that word, I hope they have diarrhea forever.

[-] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 day ago

That would probably be some ultras, they are very desperate to be recognized by liberals as "true communists" unlike those "fake authoritarians". Liberals of course don't give a shit and immediately labeled ultras as tankies as well.

It’s really not though

[-] MetalMachine@feddit.nl 11 points 2 days ago

Its become the boomer equivalent of calling everything bad communist.

[-] BluJay320 71 points 2 days ago

Authoritarianism is authoritarianism. Doesnt matter how you paint it.

[-] prototype_g2@lemmy.ml 12 points 1 day ago

Why do the anti-authoritarians not confine themselves to crying out against political authority, the state? All Socialists are agreed that the political state, and with it political authority, will disappear as a result of the coming social revolution, that is, that public functions will lose their political character and will be transformed into the simple administrative functions of watching over the true interests of society. But the anti-authoritarians demand that the political state be abolished at one stroke, even before the social conditions that gave birth to it have been destroyed. They demand that the first act of the social revolution shall be the abolition of authority. Have these gentlemen ever seen a revolution? A revolution is certainly the most authoritarian thing there is; it is the act whereby one part of the population imposes its will upon the other part by means of rifles, bayonets and cannon — authoritarian means, if such there be at all; and if the victorious party does not want to have fought in vain, it must maintain this rule by means of the terror which its arms inspire in the reactionists. Would the Paris Commune have lasted a single day if it had not made use of this authority of the armed people against the bourgeois? Should we not, on the contrary, reproach it for not having used it freely enough?


On authority, by Frederick Engels 1872

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1872/10/authority.htm

[-] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 41 points 2 days ago

Not really, no. To a capitalist, all forms of leftism is 'authoritarian,' because they consider private property natural and oppose leftists 'stealing' in.

'Authoritarianism' just isn't a particularly useful term because nobody who uses is is ever actually categorically opposed to forcefully compelling people to do or not do things. They will always have a build in exception for what ever they consider to be 'legitimate authority', and what they consider justified authority will just depend on what political philosophy they ascribe to. So really calling the word just means "someone with a different political theory to me with regards to legitimate authority."

[-] absentbird@lemm.ee 10 points 1 day ago

There are people who are categorically opposed to forcefully compelling people, and many of them use the word 'authoritarian'.

It can be a useful term, not all systems are equally authoritarian. It's a spectrum.

[-] WolfLink@sh.itjust.works 28 points 2 days ago

Just because some people might not use the term correctly doesn’t mean it isn’t a useful term

I left lemmy.ml because there were too many people defending or denying historical acts of political violence. That’s what we mean when we say tankies are authoritarian.

[-] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 29 points 2 days ago

If you'd actually read my post, you'd know my point wasn't about it being used "incorrectly".

people defending or denying historical acts of political violence. That’s what we mean when we say tankies are authoritarian.

Defeating the Nazis was an act of political violence, freeing slaves was an act of political violence, over throwing the feudal system was an act of political believe, driving out colonial empires is an act of political violence, enforcing property rights is an act of political violence, ceasing the means of production is an act of political violence.

See? This is exactly, exactly what I was talking about.

[-] starman2112@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 day ago

Slaughtering protestors was also an act of political violence, but for some reason the moderators on this instance only like it when you talk about the US doing that

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[-] Carl@lemm.ee 27 points 2 days ago

True but only for terminally online liberals. I still haven't heard anyone in real life ever use that word.

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[-] davel@lemmy.ml 39 points 2 days ago
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this post was submitted on 31 Jan 2025
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