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The narrative that OpenAI, Microsoft, and freshly minted White House “AI czar” David Sacks are now pushing to explain why DeepSeek was able to create a large language model that outpaces OpenAI’s while spending orders of magnitude less money and using older chips is that DeepSeek used OpenAI’s data unfairly and without compensation. Sound familiar?

Both Bloomberg and the Financial Times are reporting that Microsoft and OpenAI have been probing whether DeepSeek improperly trained the R1 model that is taking the AI world by storm on the outputs of OpenAI models.

It is, as many have already pointed out, incredibly ironic that OpenAI, a company that has been obtaining large amounts of data from all of humankind largely in an “unauthorized manner,” and, in some cases, in violation of the terms of service of those from whom they have been taking from, is now complaining about the very practices by which it has built its company.

OpenAI is currently being sued by the New York Times for training on its articles, and its argument is that this is perfectly fine under copyright law fair use protections.

“Training AI models using publicly available internet materials is fair use, as supported by long-standing and widely accepted precedents. We view this principle as fair to creators, necessary for innovators, and critical for US competitiveness,” OpenAI wrote in a blog post. In its motion to dismiss in court, OpenAI wrote “it has long been clear that the non-consumptive use of copyrighted material (like large language model training) is protected by fair use.”

OpenAI argues that it is legal for the company to train on whatever it wants for whatever reason it wants, then it stands to reason that it doesn’t have much of a leg to stand on when competitors use common strategies used in the world of machine learning to make their own models.

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[-] Doomsider@lemmy.world 5 points 6 hours ago

The new innovate and the old litigate.

[-] PrivacyDingus@lemmy.world 22 points 1 day ago
[-] ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world 26 points 1 day ago

Intellectual property theft for me but not for thee!

[-] Critical_Thinker@lemm.ee 20 points 1 day ago

It's a shame that you can't copyright the output of AI, isn't it?

[-] ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world 11 points 1 day ago

Trump executive order on the copyrightability of AI output in 3...

[-] vrighter@discuss.tchncs.de 12 points 1 day ago

so? it won't have any effect on china, because last i checked, us laws apply only in the us

[-] whostosay@lemmy.world 105 points 1 day ago
[-] whostosay@lemmy.world 9 points 1 day ago
[-] quokka1@mastodon.au 1 points 4 hours ago

@whostosay I know they're being touted as having done very much with very little, but this kind of thing should have been part of the little.

[-] whostosay@lemmy.world 1 points 4 hours ago

I'm not understanding your reply, do you mind rephrasing?

[-] riot@slrpnk.net 3 points 1 day ago

Security? We don’t need no security!

[-] whostosay@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

You get a free database, and you get free database, and you get a free database! EVERYBODY GETS A FREE DATABASE

Oprahbees.gif

[-] nightwatch_admin@feddit.nl 264 points 1 day ago

It is effing hilarious. First, OpenAI & friends steal creative works to “train” their LLMs. Then they are insanely hyped for what amounts to glorified statistics, get “valued” at insane amounts while burning money faster than a Californian forest fire. Then, a competitor appears that has the same evil energy but slightly better statistics.. bam. A trillion of “value” just evaporates as if it never existed.
And then suddenly people are complaining that DeepSuck is “not privacy friendly” and stealing from OpenAI. Hahaha. Fuck this timeline.

[-] Sanctus@lemmy.world 80 points 1 day ago

It never did exist. This is the problem with the stock market.

[-] Ulrich@feddit.org 44 points 1 day ago

That's why "value" is in quotes. It's not that it didn't exist, is just that it's purely speculative.

Hell Nvidia's stock plummeted as well, which makes no sense at all, considering Deepseek needs the same hardware as ChatGPT.

Stock investing is just gambling on whatever is public opinion, which is notoriously difficult because people are largely dumb and irrational.

[-] independantiste@sh.itjust.works 23 points 1 day ago

Hell Nvidia's stock plummeted as well, which makes no sense at all, considering Deepseek needs the same hardware as ChatGPT.

It's the same hardware, the problem for them is that deepseek found a way to train their AI for much cheaper using a lot less than the hundreds of thousands of GPUs from Nvidia that openai, meta, xAi, anthropic etc. uses

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[-] cygnus@lemmy.ca 10 points 1 day ago

Hell Nvidia’s stock plummeted as well, which makes no sense at all, considering Deepseek needs the same hardware as ChatGPT.

Common wisdom said that these models need CUDA to run properly, and DeepSeek doesn't.

[-] tabular@lemmy.world 16 points 1 day ago

CUDA being taken down a peg is the best part for me. Fuck proprietary APIs.

[-] fushuan@lemm.ee 11 points 1 day ago

They replaced it with a lower level nvidia exclusive proprietary API though.

People are really misunderstanding what has happened.

[-] tabular@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago

That's a damn shame.

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[-] Xanthobilly@lemmy.world 13 points 1 day ago

You know what else isn’t privacy friendly? Like all of social media.

[-] teft@lemmy.world 18 points 1 day ago

I hear tulip bulbs are a good investment...

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[-] boredtortoise@lemm.ee 16 points 1 day ago

Capitalism basics, competition of exploitation

[-] Asafum@feddit.nl 10 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

You can also just run deepseek locally if you are really concerned about privacy. I did it on my 4070ti with the 14b distillation last night. There's a reddit thread floating around that described how to do with with ollama and a chatbot program.

[-] nightwatch_admin@feddit.nl 12 points 1 day ago

That is true, and running locally is better in that respect. My point was more that privacy was hardly ever an issue until suddenly now.

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[-] Sgt_choke_n_stroke@lemmy.world 200 points 1 day ago
[-] maplebar@lemmy.world 85 points 1 day ago

If these guys thought they could out-bootleg the fucking Chinese then I have an unlicensed t-shirt of Nicky Mouse with their name on it.

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[-] marcyiu@lemmy.sdf.org 34 points 1 day ago

the Chinese realised OpenAI forgot to open source their model and methodology so they just open sourced it for them 😂

[-] AbouBenAdhem@lemmy.world 73 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

DeepSeek’s specific trained model is immaterial—they could take it down tomorrow and never provide access again, and the damage to OpenAI’s business would already be done.

DeepSeek’s model is just a proof-of-concept—the point is that any organization with a few million dollars and some (hopefully less-problematical) training data can now make their own model competitive with OpenAI’s.

[-] Zetta@mander.xyz 31 points 1 day ago

Deepseek can't take down the model, it's already been published and is mostly open source. Open source llms are the way, fuck closedAI

[-] AbouBenAdhem@lemmy.world 16 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Right—by “take it down” I just meant take down online access to their own running instance of it.

[-] dan@upvote.au 7 points 1 day ago

I suspect that most usage of the model is going to be companies and individuals running their own instance of it. They have some smaller distilled models based on Llama and Qwen that can run on consumer-grade hardware.

[-] Fredthefishlord 3 points 1 day ago

... assuming deepseek is telling the truth, something they have plenty of incentives to lie about

[-] devfuuu@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago

Imagine if a little bit of those so many millions that so many companies are willing to throw away to the shit ai bubble was actually directed to anything useful.

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[-] owenfromcanada@lemmy.world 93 points 1 day ago
[-] MysticKetchup@lemmy.world 36 points 1 day ago

I feel like I didn't appreciate this movie enough when I first watched it but it only gets better as I get older

[-] just_another_person@lemmy.world 11 points 1 day ago

It's a true comedy that still holds up. I honestly thought for years that Mel Brooks had something to do with it, but he didn't. It's so well crafted that there are many layers to it that you can't even grasp when watching as a child. Seeing it as an adult just open your eyes to how amazingly well done it was.

I could do without the whole Billy Crystalizing of large portions of it though.

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[-] Mangoholic@lemmy.ml 17 points 1 day ago

Yes get f*ed you creedy bastards.

[-] BertramDitore@lemm.ee 65 points 1 day ago

Corporate media take note. This is how you do reality-based reporting. None of the both-sides bullshit trying to justify or make excuses, just laughing in the face of absurd hypocrisy. This is a well-respected journalist confronting a truth we can all plainly see. See? The truth doesn’t need to be boring or bland or “balanced” by disingenuous attempts to see the other side.

I will explain what this means in a moment, but first: Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahhahahahahahahahahahahaha. It is, as many have already pointed out, incredibly ironic that OpenAI, a company that has been obtaining large amounts of data from all of humankind largely in an “unauthorized manner,” and, in some cases, in violation of the terms of service of those from whom they have been taking from, is now complaining about the very practices by which it has built its company.

[-] fallowseed@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago

everyone concerned about their privacy going to china-- look at how easy it is to get it from the hands of our overlord spymasters who've already snatched it from us.

[-] TipRing@lemmy.world 19 points 1 day ago

There's plenty of honor in Deepseek releasing open source.

[-] dogslayeggs@lemmy.world 25 points 1 day ago

Regardless of how OpenAI procured their data, I'm absolutely shocked that a company from China would obtain data unauthorized from a company in another country.

[-] chemicalwonka@discuss.tchncs.de 13 points 1 day ago
[-] Sho@lemmy.world 11 points 1 day ago

The battle of the plagiarism machines has begun

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this post was submitted on 29 Jan 2025
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