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The mainstream press failed to accurately describe the hand gesture that Elon Musk made twice at Trump’s Inauguration Day rally, setting a troubling precedent for the second Trump era.

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[-] JusticeForPorygon 148 points 1 month ago

Apologies to whoever originally posted this I downloaded it earlier today

[-] samus12345@lemm.ee 12 points 1 month ago

Luigi Mangione made an odd-looking gesture towards a CEO.

[-] orcrist@lemm.ee 61 points 1 month ago

It is a fun activity to think of legal standards here. Of course we don't know what he was thinking for sure, and we never will, just like everyone else in the world every day of our lives. But we can and do judge people by their actions... In other words, where do people want to put this Nazi salute? What is their certainty about his action? Below are the legal standards.

  • Reasonable suspicion
  • Probable cause
  • Preponderance of evidence (more likely than not)
  • Clear and convincing
  • Proof beyond a reasonable doubt

Where would you rank the Nazi salute conclusion? I think proof beyond reasonable doubt, and perhaps we could reasonably debate claims that it's a level or two weaker than that. But the deniers, they want to say there's not even reasonable suspicion, and that is a sad joke.

[-] jonne@infosec.pub 44 points 1 month ago

If it was something that came out of the blue, I might be more inclined to give the benefit of the doubt, but the man follows, regularly retweets and converses with actual (as in, they call themselves that) Nazis on Twitter.

It just shows that the mainstream media (and the ADL) aren't really interested in the truth.

[-] AstridWipenaugh@lemmy.world 18 points 1 month ago

It was a Nazi salute without a doubt. The only question is if it was accidental or intentional. Musk being a far-right operative and making a bunch of Nazi puns as his response instead of an apology for the misunderstanding makes it clear it was not an accident.

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[-] hendrik@palaver.p3x.de 57 points 1 month ago

Yeah, I think I wholeheartedly agree with the Die Zeit journalist. If a right-wing person does a Hitler salute in front of a right wing audience... It's probably a Hitler salute... Context matters and it's not like Musk usually shares left-wing perspective on his platform. We know for a fact whom and what he sympathizes with...

[-] jabjoe@feddit.uk 52 points 1 month ago

The thing that my stomach drop is the crowd cheered. Not a shocked intake of breath or booing. They cheered. He did a sieg heil and they cheered it. If you cheer a Nazi doing Nazi things, you're also a Nazi. The US has a Nazi infestation. Even if they get another remotely fair election to correct this, it won't be accepted, again, and insurrection2 will have been prepared for, for 5 years. I feel that sieg heil of the richest person on earth marked the end of American democracy.

[-] cultsuperstar@lemmy.world 9 points 1 month ago

Republicans will never accept another election if a Democrat wins. This is our future, where every election they lose is contested. That is, if we have another election. I think we're heading to a pseudo democracy like Russia, where they can vote but Putin always wins in a landslide.

[-] jabjoe@feddit.uk 5 points 1 month ago

To be honest, I don't see them allowing a vote to go against them. It is if this shit can hold together without Trump. He's old and doesn't do diet or exercise. He's the linchpin of it.

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[-] Rageagainstbelief@lemmy.world 41 points 1 month ago

I spent the larger part of the day trying to convince my sister. I don’t think it worked and now I’m just depressed about it.

[-] BlueLineBae@midwest.social 91 points 1 month ago

The best argument I've heard so far is "If it's not a Nazi salute, do it at work tomorrow."

[-] ShinkanTrain@lemmy.ml 51 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I tried that, got promoted to Chief of Police. I didn't even work in Law Enforcement

[-] Delphia@lemmy.world 15 points 1 month ago

And if its "just a hand gesture, try giving a cop the finger"

[-] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 14 points 1 month ago

Even better, try giving a cop the full Zack de la Rocha!

(Do not)

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[-] someguy3@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago

No kidding huh.

[-] Rageagainstbelief@lemmy.world 5 points 1 month ago

I said either way the nazis know what they saw. She still double downed gaslighting me some more and changed the subject to how Bernie’s policies are more like the nazis. I never even brought up Bernie. I replied with a sad emoji after that. It’s exhausting.

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[-] xapr@lemmy.sdf.org 25 points 1 month ago

Have you shown her the side-by-side GIF of him doing the same move as the H-man? There's another one where it shows him doing it exactly like a group of neo-nazis on a street demonstration. Mirror image.

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[-] Sanctus@lemmy.world 34 points 1 month ago

Because the Nazis own them

[-] WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world 19 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Most major corporations are owned or operated by sociopathic oligarchs who would prefer to implement a fascist dictatorship, and be a part of the state capitalist monopoly, than have to pay higher taxes or deal with regulations.

This is what happens when society rewards psychopathy/narcissism with wealth and power.

[-] in4apenny@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 1 month ago

"BuT cApItAlIsM pRoMoTeS mErItOcRaCy!!"

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[-] ShareMySims@lemmy.dbzer0.com 27 points 1 month ago

Because US corporate media is owned by fellow fascists.

Next?

[-] ChowJeeBai@lemmy.world 25 points 1 month ago

Because he's rich. And a celebrity. Americans love them their rich celebrities.

[-] pennomi@lemmy.world 16 points 1 month ago

And more importantly, rich celebrities will sue you for defamation even if you’re right. That can cost a lot of money to defend against.

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[-] ZMoney@lemmy.world 22 points 1 month ago

The corporate press is now just a pro-kleptocracy propaganda outlet. Representing the views of an oligarchy isn't exactly "mainstream" so we should stop calling it that.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 22 points 1 month ago

I've seen people here on Lemmy, people I don't think are just trolling, that are finding convoluted reasons to excuse it as not a Nazi salute. And I am so fucking tired of it. Listen to virtually everything he has ever said on the subject of race and gender and sexual orientation and other such things. Maybe if he didn't have a really long history of being a racist, maybe if he didn't support the Germany's modern Nazi party, maybe if he isn't trying to get an unapologetic Nazi out of prison in the UK, I would consider that he accidentally did a Nazi salute (twice). But that's not the reality.

"Oh sure, he's a bigot that loves Nazis, but that wasn't a Nazi salute" is some real fucking bullshit.

[-] nova_ad_vitum@lemmy.ca 5 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Internet forums have always been full of contrarians who want to be the only ones to know the "real truth". That explains a lot of it. Others just get lost in the logic of it. I'f I can't prove that he held true Nazism in his heart when he did it, does it count as a Nazi salute?' This is sort of futile question they ask. The fact that there's broad consensus on what this was makes them more likely to try to logic their way into a special minority position.

[-] HappySkullsplitter@lemmy.world 21 points 1 month ago

Fear of retaliation

I'm pretty sure that was the point

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[-] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 20 points 1 month ago

Because they’re cowards and have been for quite some time.

[-] pyre@lemmy.world 20 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

because a huge part of fascism is the merging of corporations with the government.

the corporate media is covering for nazis for the same reason the leader enshittificator Alphabet, the otherwise twitter's direct competitor Evil Corp, and of course the slavery warehouse Amazon were all represented with their figureheads Sunil Bakshi, the T-600, and Lex Luthor alongside that Troglodyte Phony Stark. they're merging.

[-] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 5 points 1 month ago

That is the precise thing your average true believer right wing "libertarian" doesn't understand about fascism.

It doesn't matter whether the state or the corporations absorb the other, the merging of these power structures (and religion as well) is the goal. The result is still a tyranny that can only be escaped with war.

[-] jaggedrobotpubes@lemmy.world 20 points 1 month ago

Lemmy should maintain a list of competent and incompetent news sources. In lots of places.

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[-] Lemjukes@lemm.ee 18 points 1 month ago
[-] Bronzebeard@lemm.ee 18 points 1 month ago

They worked very hard to get the Nazis elected. That's why.

[-] forrgott@lemm.ee 18 points 1 month ago

They're all hoping to become maga state run media.

Also, they have no problem with Nazis.

This isn't complicated. Hardly worth the time it took to post. 🙄

[-] metaStatic@kbin.earth 16 points 1 month ago

because they're complicit

[-] osaerisxero@kbin.melroy.org 13 points 1 month ago

Because they are also Nazis, they're just not ready to go mask-off yet.

[-] RangerJosey@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 month ago

"Corporate Media"

Where's the confusion?

[-] PotatoMoon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 1 month ago

I think that you are being distracted.

Hey Elon, do something outrageous so these idiots are looking at you while I'm over here doing this other scary stuff.

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[-] ininewcrow@lemmy.ca 7 points 1 month ago

Because the same people who are asked to describe who did it are the same people who are paying the people to describe it.

[-] Zomg@lemmy.world 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Because everyone wants to hope it won't happen to Us. They think/hope that by not acknowledging, it won't exist. A la COVID. Nothing like sticking your head into the sand... 😮‍💨

[-] BigBenis@lemmy.world 5 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Because there's just enough "plausible deniability" that they could face costly legal challenges by oligarchs who have endless money to throw at bogus claims

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this post was submitted on 25 Jan 2025
739 points (100.0% liked)

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