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submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by mlemmer@lemmy.ca to c/main

I wanted to provide a brief analysis of the top comments on blahaj lemmy and compared to lemmy world (who defederated from hexbear preemptively). The red comments favored federation and the blue ones favored defederation.

Initially I was browsing Blahaj Lemmy and couldn't believe how many top comments favored federation.

When I started browsing from Lemmy World (who preemptively defederated) the top comments were way more favorable to defederation. On the top comment, it looks like 50 upvotes (more than half) came from hexbear users.

Whether intentional or not, this is brigading. I'm happy that they're defederated. I really don't think that individual/local blocking is good enough since this has the ability to steer the direction of a lot of discourse, and I'd just not see it, but it would affect our instance the same. The effects of brigading still happen. I'd still see the same number of upvotes that would imply sentiment different to the actual users of the instance.

Also, is there any proper way to see where upvotes come from? I feel like this would be a good tool to vet botting, trolling and brigading. Also instance only communities (though I'm on lemmy.ca rn lmao) would be good.

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[-] lone_faerie 43 points 1 year ago

Something I saw Ada mention, that I personally appreciate, is that we were cutting hexbear more slack than they probably deserved because they're another trans friendly instance. If a few bad actors can get you to defederate, that's a very quick way to isolate trans people from the rest of the fediverse. I agree that hexbear should be defederated, but I really think Ada's plan of giving things time to cool down before putting it up to a community vote was the best way of handling it.

[-] LeylaaLovee 24 points 1 year ago

Ada was handling everything really well. But yeah, Hexbear used to be Chapo, they had to make the migration to Lemmy because they were really bad about accidentally brigading shit and got banned from Reddit for it. Ada (and also me) gave them a bigger pass than they deserve instance wide.

[-] ShittyKopper 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

There's something I'm curious about here: Blahaj has downvotes disabled while .world does not. While I don't exactly have the best idea how federation works in this case, downvotes from .world users would likely be counted in your comparison (and .world being the largest instance I assume a fair few people would've stumbled across that thread and went voting), I assume that must have some sort of an effect.

I wonder if the view from another instance has both preemptively defederated from Hexbear and has downvotes disabled (Beehaw, maybe?) would look any different.

Also, is there any proper way to see where upvotes come from? I feel like this would be a good tool to vet botting, trolling and brigading

AFAIK you can tell exactly who voted what if you have database access.

[-] mlemmer@lemmy.ca 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Yeah I did look from my beehaw account and it's still like the lemmy.world view. From lemm.ee (not defed) it looks like the blahaj view.

[-] Omniraptor 5 points 1 year ago

Alsoo afaict the down votes are only disabled visually, the api still works so you can downvote if browsing e.g. from a third party client

[-] ada 16 points 1 year ago

Even then, they're not taken in to account with the ranking algorithms

[-] Catoblepas 9 points 1 year ago

Sometimes I’ve accidentally not swiped far enough while using Voyager, and it downvotes instead of going back. I’ve always got an error about the downvote not registering and assumed it was because it’s disabled on the instance.

[-] princessnorah 4 points 1 year ago

Same on Memmy. I’m assuming both just haven’t coded for the button itself to be hidden based on your signed in instance.

[-] BiNonBi 9 points 1 year ago

I don't think this is the proper way to do this analysis. I believe the lemmy.world vote counts should be the same as blahaj.zone. It will still include the votes from hexbear. The only difference would be that lemmy.world's view will include the down votes from lemmy.world itself. Those won't federate over to blahaj.zone since down voting is disabled on the instance.

It should be possible to do your analysis though. It will take getting a copy of the vote history for the comments on the post. Every admin of an instance that federates with blahaj.zone has a copy of that. Then you will have to run some queries on the database to filter votes by the instance they originate from.

[-] mlemmer@lemmy.ca 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It's definitely not "proper" lol. I'm pretty sure it doesn't count the votes though. I could be wrong in which case why was the difference so large. It's still true when viewing from Beehaw, which has downvotes disabled.

[-] BiNonBi 10 points 1 year ago

Now that I've looked at lemmy.world, beehaw and lemm.ee myself, you might be closer to right than I initially thought. The amount of comments in the first thread on the blocking instances, lemmy.world and beehaw, is much less than the federated instances, blahaj.zone and lemme.ee. The vote amounts on the blocking instances agree with each other and the amounts on the federated instances agree with each other.

I think that's sufficient evidence to conclude something is up. I'm going to suspect lemmy.world and beehaw filtered out hexbear comments and votes when they federated the post. This would suggest brigading from hexbear users. But I would need to view the vote database to be sure.

this post was submitted on 19 Aug 2023
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