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Not that there's anything good about this, but hearing that both Steven Pinker and Richard Dawkins "resigned" from whatever honorary positions they had with the FFRF rather made my heart sink.

I was a linguistics student for a time, and Pinker's books always had a sociolinguistic aspect to them, but I never saw transphobia. It was admittedly a while back, so it really wasn't yet settling into the national consciousness.

I also admired Dawkins' writing style; again, I saw nothing transphobic.

So for both of these guys to be like "nope, you should have totally kept a piece up that says transwomen should have fewer rights and options" is, maybe, the final insult of 2024.

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[-] Bronzebeard@lemm.ee 73 points 3 months ago

This is not a part of atheism. These are old ass narcissistic bigots who needed a new grift as their old one wore thin.

[-] Powderhorn@beehaw.org 15 points 3 months ago

That is a weird bit to me as well. I'm used to atheists being the group most likely to follow Jesus' teachings.

[-] metaStatic@kbin.earth 5 points 3 months ago

I think the purpose of religious teachings is to cast off the shackles of religion

[-] yessikg 46 points 3 months ago

As an atheist, I don't follow a single famous atheist because then it feels like preaching and that just reminds me of religion

[-] Obi@sopuli.xyz 6 points 3 months ago

I can never remember which one between atheism and agnosticism is the one where you just don't give a fuck, that's the one I am.

[-] derek@infosec.pub 6 points 3 months ago

That would be apatheism. It's not an alternative to the other claims but a disinterest in the problem space itself.

Atheism is a spectrum of opinion ranging from "I neither accept claims including gods nor put forward alternatives" to "I claim no gods can exist and here's why" with some wiggle room on both sides as the arguments devolve or extremify.

Agnosticism is a strange participant as it lacks a cohesive definition. It's more like a spectrum of reasons "adherents" think the claims made by others aren't valid. It's the last port of call for participants embroiled in philosophically rigorous metaphysical tedium and first stop for apatheists so disaffected they've never read a relevant text.

?

As a non-religious person, I do not want to associate with people like Richard Dawkins 🤮

[-] within_epsilon@beehaw.org 31 points 3 months ago

"No gods, no masters" also applies to demagogues like Pinker or Dawkins. Disconnecting an idea from the people associated with bringing it into your life can be difficult.

[-] millie@beehaw.org 27 points 3 months ago

Next time could you post some kind of warning that this is literally just 20 minutes of this guy reading out transphobic posts? Thanks.

[-] belated_frog_pants@beehaw.org 23 points 3 months ago

Fuck dawkins. Embarrassing bigot.

You arent a "awakened thinker" or w/e if you are a fucking racist and woman hater

[-] Honytawk@lemmy.zip 22 points 3 months ago

There is no transphobia in Atheism.

There are some individuals who ascribe to being Atheists, and who are also transphobic.

But "Not believing in a god" says nothing about transphobia.

[-] DonPiano@feddit.org 21 points 3 months ago

Oh hey these three (Dawk, Coyne, Pinker) were disappointments/shitty back when the atheism movement of the Aughties split into those who combine it with social justice sentiments and those who just wanna be bigots without also going to church. That tracks.

[-] Snowpix@lemmy.ca 10 points 3 months ago

All atheism is is a lack of belief in a god or gods. Unfortunately, that means anyone can be an atheist, including shitty transphobic assholes. That doesn't mean atheism itself has a serious transphobia issue.

[-] Scary_le_Poo@beehaw.org 9 points 3 months ago

Witaf does atheism have to do with transphobia?

One is a rejection of God beliefs, the other is about identity and people's bodies. It's like comparing a parking structure to a grapefruit.

[-] josefo@leminal.space 9 points 3 months ago

Well, I'm not familiar with the works of neither, but I'll throw a limb here and say that fighting religion doesn't really means fighting cult mentality. It's better to uproot the tree than laughing at the color of some apples.

Why we can't finally agree on the fact that humans deserve the same rights as others humans because, well, they are all humans, and you kinda can't loose that trait no matter what. It's simple, you are a human, you have the same rights (and obligations) as others humans do.

[-] CyberEgg@discuss.tchncs.de 7 points 3 months ago

While I like Steve Shives generally, I don't like the title. Now, I haven't watched this video yet so I don't know if he differentiates, but from I read in the comments it's (mostly) about Dawkins and Pinker (whom I don't know). Most activists who support trans communities and the LGBTQIA+-movement are atheists though.

Quite the same topic (Dawkins' transphobia) is this video by Genetically Modified Skeptic: Why I Turned Down Working With Richard Dawkins

(I don't want to take anything away from Steve Shives though. I'm not saying ”Watch this video instead“, I just want to add.)

[-] millie@beehaw.org 7 points 3 months ago

I wouldn't assume that most queer-supporting activists are atheists. They're probably not latching onto bigoted religious organizations, but there's a massive range of worldviews between adherence to any particular religion and a firm belief in a lack of deities or of other things we'd typically qualify as religious, spiritual, or supernatural. They're probably unlikely to be your typical churchgoing conservative Christian, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're fully landing on atheism specifically.

[-] xilliah@beehaw.org 5 points 3 months ago

Regarding athletes, aren't there like different categories within the genders too? Where I live there's some massive cisgender women, like they're muscular, wide, and tall. I can't see those competing against a smaller woman in certain sports.

[-] VerticaGG 10 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Womens sports were never about protecting women, full stop. They were sold as such, sure (racist and transphobic moralizing fear campaigns have so often scored political offices).

Women's sports exist to protect (a faceless majority of) men's egos from women's excellence. The fact that FIDE still enforces women's chess is a glaring example.

To "cover all bases" though: When it comes to physiology, it would make so much more sense to have weight classes irregardless of sex or gender identity.

Fact is we have entrenched, wealthy institutions with lots of bastards who refuse to see the humanity of another gender or skin tone other than their own, and until they croak they'll drag out every backwards tradition they can force down our throats.

[-] xilliah@beehaw.org 3 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Wait, so, you're telling me men feel pain? 🤔

All joking aside I feel so naive sometimes. Women's chess? Like what the actual 🦆

[-] VerticaGG 3 points 3 months ago

Yuuup. It'd be funny if it weren't so harmful 🙃

[-] jansk@beehaw.org 1 points 3 months ago

VerticaGG is misrepresenting how this actually works. The main FIDE chess league is open to anyone, men or women or whatever. But because women tend to do worse in chess (for whatever reason, you can discuss why until the cows come home but it isn't the point) exclusive women-only titles and tournaments were created in order to encourage more women to take part.

For example there is the Woman Grand Master title which is significantly easier to achieve than regular Grand Master, but women can and have achieved both.

It seems to have worked, too. The top women players today are fantastic, and have dramatically reduced the gap in the top rankings. We could yet see a woman as world champion for the first time.

[-] Randomguy@lemm.ee 2 points 3 months ago

The fact that FIDE still enforces women's chess is a glaring example.

There is no man's chess, you know? Women can and do participate in open tournaments against men.

Woman's chess is a DEI program to incentivize woman's participation in chess in a more inclusive environment, because, surprise surprise, chess has a misogyny problem. You can argue that this doesn't work or something, but it definitely isn't there to protect men's egos (especially considering titles acquired in women's chess tournaments are worth less than regular titles).

[-] VerticaGG 2 points 3 months ago
[-] Revan343@lemmy.ca 5 points 3 months ago

It depends on the sport, but yes, many competitive sports have weight classes

[-] derbis@beehaw.org 2 points 3 months ago

Where I live there's some massive cisgender women, like they're muscular, wide, and tall.

Oh well um... Whereabouts is this, out of academic curiosity? 💦

[-] xilliah@beehaw.org 3 points 3 months ago
[-] NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone 2 points 3 months ago

I just don’t trust anyone who actively identifies themself as an Atheist. It’s not some lifestyle, cult, or movement - just the absence of religion.

Feels more like Dawkins et al are trying to build a power base on a rather spurious commonality so they can tell other people what to do; who does that remind you of?

[-] AbsoluteChicagoDog@lemm.ee 1 points 3 months ago

Non stamp collectors should leave behind their transphobia too

[-] NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone 1 points 3 months ago

I just don’t trust anyone who actively identifies themself as an Atheist. It’s not some lifestyle, cult, or movement - just the absence of religion.

Feels more like Dawkins et al are trying to build a power base on a rather spurious commonality so they can tell other people what to do; who does that remind you of?

[-] jansk@beehaw.org 1 points 3 months ago

This makes no sense to me. What exactly do you have against atheists? Are you religious yourself?

this post was submitted on 01 Jan 2025
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