People will always blast me for this, but German cars have better ride quality, interiors and overall engineering. Durability too. What they're worse at is total cost of ownership, because of the occasional problem with absurdly expensive systems. But there's a reason people buy them even at the ridiculous prices they cost.
But there's a reason people buy them even at the ridiculous prices they cost.
One way bigger reason is they're fashion statements and status symbols for people who can afford them, having nothing to due with the other reasons you mentioned. Specifically BMW, Benz, Porsche.
Tell me you've never owned one without telling me you've ever owned one.
Plenty of young people want them as fashion statements, sure, but the primary buying audience for new German cars isn't really folks in their 20s.
So which manufacturers should we look at? I'm in the market for a second EV right now. And this is my chain of thought.
My considerations are:
I was looking at Renault Zoe, but after speaking with my local Renault dealer, who has a warranty order in for a simple spare reverse camera, and Renault for 6 months straight now, can't even tell when they'll be able to ship it. So Renault is out of the running.
So what else is there? Must be <5 years old, <20k€, and if it could have some warranty left it would be great. Hyundai Kona is starting to look pretty good right now.
Hyundai IONIQ (or the Kia EV# rebadges)?
Alternatively Volvo/Polestar, perhaps? Technically they’re partially Chinese owned - but at least a respectable International marque.
I’m a sucker for the neon-green Abarth 500e, but I’m going to wait a few years to pick one up second hand - as it’s hard to justify buying a Stellaris car new, given how quickly they depreciate here (Australia).
Tesla is trash, no QC.
I want some recommendations. Something with tactile controls and no subscriptions.
1998 Toyota Tercel.
I drive the EV equivalent of this, a 2016 Nissan leaf.
It only cost 6k, 4kish with tax rebates, but it has a max mileage of like 70 miles. Perfect for our needs as a commuter car within the city.
There is a touchscreen, but that's just for audio since the gps and Pandora features stopped working after 3g cell service was phased out. There are tactile controls for audio as well.
I like our Hyundai Kona a lot.
I loves ours too. But the Bluetooth function is totally crazy
Now this should not be able to happen but it will connect my phone to my daughter's and play out of her phone
I'm about to go look at a used Kona tomorrow. So if you please, what is crazy about the bluetooth?
How so?
If you're in the US, wait about a year and you'll have a bunch of better options from the traditional automakers.
The thing that makes Tesla compelling to me is their charger network, and Ford, GM, etc are adopting the Tesla standard in upcoming models. I think Ford is doing the switch in 2025.
I'm a truck guy, and the F150 lightning looks way, way more compelling than the Cybertruck, because they're making what I want. A truck that happens to be electric. Ford has been making F-series trucks for over 75 years and has made a pretty refined package in that time. They took that design, put in an electric motor and used the space savings for a frunk.
That's what I want. The revolution should be in how it's powered, not in how it operates.
Yeah we know Tesla sucks
Are you actually asking for honest feedback or just upvotes?
If so, buying any used car is better. If you can get by with a 2008 accord, buy that. Better for the environment than any new electric. If you don't care about the environment and just want an electric for funsies, buy a used (whatever is well rated).
Better for the environment than any new electric.
Got any sources on that?
I don't have any data, but I'm surprised if a new electric is worse than a second hand ICE? What's your thinking behind that?
Reduce, reuse, recycle. Better to use a car that's already made then to make a new one.
That sort of makes sense, but then cars aren't stand alone things, they actively consume to travel. I guess it's a case of how much CO2 (I'm assuming we're ignoring other environment impact for now) is used in manufacture vs driving?
The second hand ICE keeps you buying new fuel though. With the EV, depending on location, most of your "fuel" is wind and sunshine, maybe nuclear.
With cars, you can't really compare the production alone, they pollute way more after the fact.
Better yet, buy a bicycle. Of course this doesn't currently work for everyone, but many people could live a better life with just a bike and don't even realize it. Deeply evaluate your own situation.
I'm not asking for anything. I just wanted to warn people so they are not stuck with a heap of junk from a company who's CEO endorses neo-Nazi political parties.
Yeah not a single dime he will receive from me. I'm not going to support a Nazi.
I'm very happy with mine but to each their own. Musk is definitely a complete asshole to put it mildly and imo the worst part of having a Tesla is the association with him. It's certainly a valid reason to not want one.
Nearly all modern cars are a privacy nightmare. That is not a valid reason to avoid Tesla in favor of a different modern car.
All the other points are spot on, though. Fuck Tesla and fuck the nazi shitbag that pretends to run it.
The first point rings true, but the other points seem like cherry picking.
Unreliability: https://www.kbb.com/car-news/consumer-reports-subaru-lexus-make-the-most-reliable-cars/ Tesla is below average on reliability, but unreliable Mainstays like Jeep still are lower. Other lists put Tesla in the middle of the pack, Cybertruck nonwithstanding. Still not great.
Fatal accident rate: This comment explains why: "As for fatalities, neither the article nor the comments I've seen so far have raised the obvious points of mis-use or over-reliance on automated driving systems or the shock (as in a famous case in Texas a couple of years ago) of an inexperienced driver given access to, let's say a Model S Plaid, stepping on the accelerator and being thrown back against the seat and into a state of shock such that the foot remains pressed on the accelerator while the car runs off the road."
Spying: Unfortunately, every single brand spies on you and your driving, as shown in https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/blog/privacy-nightmare-on-wheels-every-car-brand-reviewed-by-mozilla-including-ford-volkswagen-and-toyota-flunks-privacy-test/
A note on the "Fatal accident rate" topic:
A car which uses touch panels for control and electronics for simple things like doors, and relies only on a camera to do self-driving (no lidar), is bound to be unsafe in multiple ways. Drivers make more mistakes because they aren't provided physical switches and levers, they make mistakes because they're distracted by light from screens, in emergencies there are issues with unlocking doors and finally, when machine vision fails, there is no backup to tell of a Big Old Obstacle right ahead.
A note on the "Spying" topic:
Mozilla compared privacy policies. They didn't actually take apart cars, intercept their comms or dissect manufacturers' apps. I wish there existed a review of actual behaviours, as opposed to policies.
A car's ability to actually spy on the user depends on its tech, not just the policy. So a very simple car (not a Tesla, obviously) with a very agressive policy of "we collect everything" would be safer than a smartphone on wheels with a modest policy. You can't spy if you haven't got sensors.
For recommendations, in the States, Porsche and Lucid are the best you can get. You have a lot more options for electric vehicles outside of the US, in say, Australia or the UK, because of Chinese brands.
Chinese brands are affordable because they pay their workers slave wages. Fuck off with that.
That's very noble of you. I assume you are also extra cautious in not buying clothes made in Bangladesh etc?
Electric Vehicles are a key part of our tomorrow and how we get there. If we can get all the fossil fuel vehicles off our roads, out of our seas and out of our skies, we'll have a much better environment. This community is where we discuss the various different vehicles and news stories regarding electric transportation.
Related communities: