https://mas.to/@MikeBeas/113666556469008087
EDIT: I think you should get the service you pay for, just so that's clear.
Mike is not wrong. In fact, he's very clearly laying out why insurance companies should not exist.
I'm not sure that was the argument he was trying to make though.
he’s very clearly laying out why insurance companies should not exist.
He's laying the case for why insurance must either operate as a public loss-leader or a privatized scam. But I don't think he really understands the bottom layer of the argument.
All I'm seeing is "Insurance is business. Business need to make money. Therefore denying claims is good aktuly." There's no "ah ha" bit at the end where he recognizes their predatory nature.
Do you guys think politicians have a duty to adhere to their campaign promises? They're not under oath. They have no responsibility to improve anyone's life. They're a business to win votes to alter policy in their favour.
UnitedHealth Group is so vertically integrated that, in fact they do own doctors, hospitals and pharmacies under the Optum brand. So yes, they do have a duty to take care of people even if they act like they don't.
it's a business that helps you pay your bills
Quite the opposite, it's a business that makes your bills expensive.
This gaslighting won't work anymore
Yeah, similarly, Burger King doesn't have to give you the whopper you've paid for. BK employees didn't take an oath to feed you whoppers. They only have taken an oath to the managers, who have taken an oath to the CEO, who has taken an oath to Friedrich Hayek and the shareholders to make shitloads in dividends, as is their social responsibility. Everything is working just fine in our society thanks to these nice concepts.
Burger King doesn’t have to give you the whopper you’ve paid for.
The analogy breaks down because BK has an immediate cash-for-commodity relationship with the clients. If you had BK a $5 and they don't give you a sandwich, you stop going.
But insurance takes your $5 up front in exchange for assuming the risk that you might need care in the future. You keep giving UHC $5 day after day and week after week, receiving nothing tangible in exchange. It is only when the risk materializes, at the moment you need care, that you ask UHC for money back and they say "No".
This leads some people to advocate for health savings accounts as a replacement for private insurance. But then you have to deal with the possibility of a medical claim that exceeds your balance. So you get conversations about risk-pooling. But that just takes you back around to insurance companies again.
All of this is in an effort to discourage people from implementing public free-at-point-of-use health care (a la the NHS). The idea that we would simply have hospitals you can go to when you're sick, in the same way we have elementary schools to go to when you're young or fire departments to go to when you are on fire, is so totally alien to the hyper-individualist profit-fixated neoliberal capitalist that it never seems to come up in conversation.
I'm launching my burger insurance company
Without realizing it, Mike Beasley makes a great argument for why private, for-profit health insurance shouldn't exist.
As some who has no clue who Mike Beasley is, that seems like a perfectly legitimate Interpretation. A lot of people, like the one he is replying too, knowingly or not are defending the existing system and the existence of health insurances companies.
I mean, forget about health for a second: we all know insurance companies fucking suck, and they are essentially just a symptom of a shitty system. So why are we fighting/wishing/hoping for them to be run better/more empathetically instead of wanting a different system?
I think the his comment can be seen as a call-out of how some people are missing the root of the issue.
It's like all the media that think they are defending Brian Thompson by saying he was less horrible than the average healthcare CEO. Sometimes I wonder if they are making an argument for resurrecting the guillotine industry.
You know... that kinda vow would be a great idea! Doctors take an oath like thing too, right?
"It's a business" is not a justification for evil, and yet that's always how the phrase is used.
It’s my understanding that health insurance companies hire doctors, who have taken the hypocritical oath, to review claims and deny them.
The very concept of paying for health care through insurance is evil.
Why do we even allow a profit motive to deny health care? Should be straight up illegal.
Not a meme.
We should stop calling it "insurance", it doesn't ensure anything. We should call it what it is - a protection racket. Either that, or we could refer to it as "medical loans" - of course, it's all paid in advance, in many installments. Oh wait. That's just defining a protection racket again, isn't it?
It’s a protection racket similar to the mob, except the mob has scruples and will actually protect you if you pay up. If you don’t pay up, broken kneecaps.
Health insurance is just paying for broken kneecaps. If the mob ran healthcare we’d have better outcomes than we currently do, let’s be real.
Loans pay out.
Oh no, each claim is a new loan application. You pay in your premium to have the right to apply.
Funny how life insurance always pays, no problem. Because if they get a bad rep, people will go elsewhere. We can't do that with employer-covered healthcare!
insurance is a fucking scam that preys on the most vulnerable segment of the population in order to enrich themselves and their shareholders. and the vast majority of people think that's just the way things are in america, therefore it's the best possible way for things to be. what's not to understand?
Beasley kind of has a point that it's a stretch to call monetary debt as murder, but I really hope more people start voting for politicians who will end privatized healthcare.
Even if a claim gets denied the fact that it was submitted means you already got the treatment.
Denied treatment is murder. Social murder. Stop simping for these companies they don’t give a fuck about you.
Even if a claim gets denied the fact that it was submitted means you already got the treatment.
That's quite often not true. There are tons of procedures/tests/etc that don't get run until a "prior authorization" has been granted by the insurance company. Also medications and durable medical equipment are not dispensed until insurance has been approved. If the prior auth is not granted or the medication is not covered, they usually will not be performed/provided unless the patient pays up front, and without the negotiating power of the insurance company, the patient will be paying 5 to 10 times what the insurance company would have paid.
I've personally been dealing with medical issues the past 3 months and the amount of prior auths I've seen go by is astounding. Tomorrow I actually go in for some more tests that they couldn't do a few weeks ago because these ones in particular needed some prior auths that are harder to get.
Generally speaking, uninsured medical costs and medication are cheaper than what the insurance company pays. SOURCE
Hospitals and Insurance companies do this because it's a write-off for the insurance company and it makes the patients feel better about their coverage plan.
You likely could get the treatment without the authorizations if you pressed, I sincerely doubt the hospital would try to stop you, but that would put you into debt so obviously don't do that.
... This dude needs to understand how other types of insurance work
That why insurance should not be for profit.
Not a fan of the smug liberal aura this post has.
I feel like every time someone uses the word "liberal" on lemmy, the meaning of the word shifts slightly to the right.
Liberals are right wing.
Liberals are right wing. They're comparatively further left than conservatives but both ideologies favour capitalism as the economic system which is inherently on the right -- in opposition to a more controlled market.
Conservatism is just far right liberalism as a pit stop on the path to fascism.
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