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Andy Beshear, you are a monster for this, and if there is a hell, you will burn in it.
i wonder if democrats will still vote for him in a re-election after trump leaves office considering that democrats were willing to accept a genocide to make a cop the president.
Of course they will. They will vote in republican democrats to save democracy whatever that means. Just keep checking the blue box don't think about it too much. Orange man bad.
"Vote blue no matter who."
Every time I hear a (typically well-off, middle-aged white person) say this, I experience something that's rare for me: I actually want to strike them.
They've already transitioned to copium that Trump can't run again and only he is popular, not his racist, homophobic, imperialist policies.
Which is why it's fine, they'll run a Biden reskin or a Hillary reskin next time too.
Y'all think the trolley problem is a silly cartoon, huh.
The adults in the room like you rely on complicated concepts, like philosophical problems that they interpret shallowly and put in meme format
Meanwhile us goofballs actually see a horizon beyond alternating which boot will stomp on us for the rest of eternity.
If you could actually fucking do that, I would welcome it with open arms.
In the meantime: this is the hole we are in. Act accordingly.
So your solution to getting out of the hole is to pretend like the hole is inescapable until someone else does the work? Isn't that kind of cowardly?
You're having a fascinating conversation that doesn't seem to involve what I actually write.
You said:
In the meantime: this is the hole we are in. Act accordingly.
AKA "I'm acting like this reality is inescapable"
And also:
If you could actually fucking do that, I would welcome it with open arms.
AKA "I'd love it if someone were to do the work for me"
Right, because "in the meantime" means for-ev-errrr. Acknowledging that shit sucks means I want it to suck eternally.
And pointing out that your grand vision hasn't happened yet means it's my fault.
When do you plan on actually contributing to an alternative?
Seriously, what concrete things need to happen before you're like "a better world is worth taking risks for"?
In the meantime: this is the hole we are in. Act accordingly.
the meantime seems permanent right now because of takes like this.
it's easy to understand to understand where you're coming from because i use believe in the same thing; but age and experienced has prodded me learn that we're in this hole because a HUGE majority people don't bother to read.
my own experience tells me that you're at least vaguely aware that history repeats itself and the people of the past wrote down what worked and what didn't work at the cost of their lives in their own efforts at making things better; just like what you and beshear are probably trying to do. (if you've done the homework, you would already know that it's not going to work like it hasn't worked over the last 150+ years).
things are not going to get better until we start educating ourselves on why we're in this hole and "acting accordingly" only keeps us down like crabs in a bucket.
The meantime seems permanent because "more evil" keeps winning, when decent people stay home. No individual's attitude toward a system is responsible for that system. Someone will win every election. Someone will take office. Letting the greater evil win over the lesser evil is always a fucking terrible decision, no matter how much of an asshole the lesser evil is.
Examine your own condescending 'I was like you once' memory palace, and ask how often people have gone 'we're gonna withhold our vote, and then they'll all do what we say!' Has that ever worked? Has that worked, even once, in all of human history? Because my experience is chock-full of high-minded nobodies rejecting flawed opposition to absolute monsters. It didn't give us better opposition. It gave us unchallenged monsters.
Voting doesn't magically stop you from doing anything else. It is not somehow holding back whatever high-minded solution I'm sure you're busy with. None of us are stopping you, by pointing out: everyone who voted for this asshole kept an even bigger asshole out of power.
Simply scoffing that it shouldn't work that way is insufficient to change that it does.
i'm aware that it comes across as condescension, but i can assure you that it's no more, nor less condescending than your own comment:
Y’all think the trolley problem is a silly cartoon, huh.
i shared my "i was like you once" memory because i can see that your views comes from the same propagandized ignorance that my mine did and i thought it might help; i used to say the same things you just did.
i've since learned that the poor voter turn out is a symptom our voting system; not a principled stance to withhold votes. harris lost because disaffected democrats have lost faith in the system; not because leftist withheld suppor. even if ALL of the leftists in this country had voted for harris, she still would have lost; there aren't enough leftists in this country to make up for the number of liberals that she lost during the election because of the democrats shift towards conservatism. (they will continue to lose as they keep going right wards).
people stop voting once they realize that democrats aren't going to shit to help after the boot has stomped on their necks one too many times and don't know what to do about it; so they just stay home on election day (that's why the marginalized don't vote as much as everyone else) and this punch-left-mentality helps ensure that they will never know what to do about it.
that greater evil you were referring to will keep wining so long as we don't bother to learn from the people who came before us.
No matter how justified you think that rhetorical device is - it does not fucking work. It's always insulting. And as an effortless all-purpose grasp to delegitimize whoever you say it to, it's been used to push total bullshit, more often than it's been right. Find something else to say.
Pointing out dilemmas are real is not the same thing.
The people who came before me proudly said they'd skip this election, 'and then everyone will oh no it went wrong somehow.' I don't recall specifying that these people were leftists. Thank you for underlining how a wide variety of people made this stupid decision. Do you think all of them doing it makes it less stupid?
Do you think all of them doing it makes it less stupid?
no more stupid than racking up election failures due to willfully ignoring the reasons for those failures and expecting things to change despite doing the same thing over and over again.
like abolition and suffrage it's going to take generations for things in this country to get better so long as opinions like yours are popular and; also just like back then; it will be despite the liberals.
opinions like yours
What, "don't elect fascists?" "Less evil is better, actually?" "For the love of god, at least vote?"
Y'all are having a conversation that's two-thirds making up what you pretend I must think. I'm glad it's going well for you. I'm not sure my participation was necessary.
What, “don’t elect fascists?” “Less evil is better, actually?” ...
everyone who disagrees with you is wrong; therefore they must drop their silly principals and fall in line because things are getting worse.
... “For the love of god, at least vote?”
leftists are highly engaged and vote, we're the 3rd party people; that's why the vote counts are always just as reliable as the republicans.
democrats are the ones tanked democrats when they didn't show up to vote, so they're your people; why not ask them?
this is not snark: i'm serious about this; digging into this is the reason why i'm not longer a democrat (i also know that i can't sway you w stats, so this is the only way).
Y’all are having a conversation that’s two-thirds making up what you pretend I must think. I’m glad it’s going well for you. I’m not sure my participation was necessary.
i experience the same thing when i make unpopular comments in the diet reddit instances like .world.
social media tribalism is a FASCINATING phenomenon. in the future there will be two lemmy's, one with its original instances as it is now and another one with the diet reddit instances (assuming that they can figure out how to get more non-leftist content & community that can compete w bluesky, reddit, or twitter).
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Decent people stay at home because they recognize they're only choosing which person they want to sign the bills that corporations write. Insisting they're at fault for not voting and staying inactive the next 4 years is the shit that got you here, maybe blame yourself for not organizing and putting down those who do as part of the problem.
And this is why Americans are still in their hole.
americans are not aware that they're in a hole until the boot steps on their neck one too many times.
Vote blue no matter who.
Oh you don't want to vote for literal republicans? Sorry bub, this is a purity test that goes to far for the democratic party!
Don't let perfect get in the way of good (voting for republicans).
Choice A turns out to be an asshole who calls transgender care elective.
Choice B openly says transgender people should be turned into cat food.
Take all the time you need.
"But I'm being oppressed under democrats"
"We will let the other guy torture you if you do not comply(well actually it entirely depends on what white cishet people vote for), and our core base will say you deserved it for not voting hard enough."
When someone says 'your money or your life,' the fact you don't like either option doesn't change your options.
Now imagine a scenario where if that thief takes your money, you will die relatively soon anyways. Now you understand the third option!
'I would throw a pipe under the trolley,' says yet another person who does not understand metaphor. It's not a roleplaying game. It's an illustration. Changing the map won't change the territory.
There is no third option on any given November. One of two candidates is going to take office. You are effectively offered a binary choice between them. Wishing real hard and playing what-if does not change the 0.0% chances that several million people will suddenly agree with you, out of the clear blue sky.
Do you conceive of your entire political reality as waiting anxiously who to vote for in November? Do you not see any political action you can take outside of elections that are ultimately owned by the capitalist class?
Do you think that's what's implied, whenever someone tells you to stop letting outright fascists take power? 'Pancakes are good.' 'Why do you hate waffles?' Wrong.
If you have a plans for better elections - great! But when the election happens, and your plan didn't work, you have to work with what's real.
If you have plans totally unrelated to elections - great! They won't conflict with voting for less evil, no matter how evil you think "less evil" is. More evil is worse, actually.
whenever someone tells you to stop letting outright fascists take power
Read Fascism and Social Revolution by R. Palme Dutt
Read Economy and Class Structure of German Fascism by A Sohn-Rethel
Then tell me that it is possible to keep fascism out of power through voting.
So what are you doing right now to fight fascism? If the answer doesn't include being active in a socialist organization, the only people that historically have been effective at opposing fascism, then the answer is effectively "diddly-squat", and you should get your ass in gear.
That's not as easy as lecturing those who do the work for not doing what they wish they'd do instead
Again with the reductionist analogies lmao. Can liberals not defend their positions without pretending it's a fundamentally different situation first?
Pretending your argument maps perfectly onto a reductive analogy (that you absolutely didn't understand) doesn't make it reality.
If this were the trolley problem, dems and conservatives would be the exact same track, just one option goes quickly and other slowly. Actually changing the track involves choosing to organize and do the work of undermining the capitalist system itself, not the brand of puppet you're gonna get. But liberals dislike this because it's not as easy as literally flipping a lever.
If you're still campaigning for corporate dems, you're insisting on keeping the lever where it is, but the lesser evil would make it run slowly so maybe it'll give others time to stop it, and that way it might not splash guts and blood on you, which is the important part after all.
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Someone saying "your access to lifesaving medication or your life" is functionally the same thing as them saying "your life (slow) or your life (fast)"
'You're underselling this systemic dilemma by comparing it to being robbed at gunpoint.'
This fucking server.
As we all know, systemic forces can not be worse than being robbed at gunpoint.
You do understand that fucking holocaust survivors have called this anti-trans push genocidal, right? Democrats who are also pushing it are also pushing extermination.
Keep pounding the table about what a bastard Beshear is for doing this - that'll totally prove me wrong when I mention what a bastard Beshear is for doing this.
The immediate alternative was still worse. Unless, as we all know, an anti-trans push cannot be worse than denying medicine in prison.
The immediate alternative was still worse.
This is right after the election.The immediate alternative is that democrats don't fucking cave on whether they should take part in genocide, when taking part in that genocide is actually incredibly unpopular with voters.
Do y'all not understand the difference between voters and the party, or do you conflate them deliberately? Because the topic until right this moment was the election.
The immediate alternative, for voters, in the election, was worse. The fact some bastard got in and is doing bastard things is not news, is still not a counterargument, and is not even on-topic to the concept of what voters do now.
Do you not understand that this topic includes democratic politicians straight up being collaborators, and how that might be relevant to the argument you're trying to make?
What about choice D? 🤫
Nothing should surprise you coming from the party of genocide
"The Democratic governor said he is against inmates “receiving better coverage and health care than a law-abiding citizen.”
Then get better health coverage for your citizens you jackass.
If someone is in prison, IE, in the care of the state, and unable to choose their own paths, the state is therefore responsible for that person's well-being. In other words, the state is morally mandated to give that person food, medical care, etc.
If you don't want inmates "receiving better coverage and health care than a law-abiding citizen", fucking get law-abiding citizens, you dicksneeze!
Vote this clown out (when you can).
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this post was submitted on 16 Dec 2024
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