Why do you say the letter "O" when you mean the digit "0"? (feddit.org)

submitted 4 days ago by SatyrSack@feddit.org to c/AskUSA@discuss.online

27 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Examples:

One oh two Main Street
Four oh seven PM
Biology one oh one
Eight six seven, five three oh nine
Four oh four: Not found

Not just a US thing, so I hope this is okay to ask here. I have just never encountered this is any language other than English. Is it simply that O and 0 look similar, and that "oh" has fewer syllables than "zero"? I have not heard a good explanation from coworkers who I've asked.

top 27 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[-] southsamurai@sh.itjust.works 24 points 4 days ago

Definitely not just a US thing, and it really is just the difference in syllables.

There's a fancy name for it in linguistics, but shortening words in speech and writing is a thing that's human.

Not every language shortens every word, obviously. But when something is common enough in usage, it gets as short as possible.

Zero is one of two single digits with multiple syllables. I'm still surprised seven hasn't gotten trimmed down in speech yet. Closest I've heard is "seb'n", which is a teeny bit faster because of three way the lips move with a b vs a v.

Since there's a letter sound that closely matches the written numeral (and, being real, they're written the same, just not machine printed the same), it just makes sense that "oh" gets substituted rather than it getting elided in some way.

[-] SatyrSack@feddit.org 6 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

This is probably a better question for an "ask linguistics" community or something, because yes, this behaviour does not seem to stem from any culture. But still, why only English? Spanish, Italian, French, and probably others also have a two-syllable word for the digit 0, but only in English is it commonly substituted for the letter O.

[-] wjrii@lemmy.world 4 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

I'm just musing, but I wonder if there's anything to the fact that in Italian, zero is already a contraction of the earlier zevero or zefiro, and speakers of other Romance languages maybe would have felt that idea intuitively or even, among certain groups, explicitly.

Then there's the fact that French just get pissy about linguistic change generally. 🤣

[-] southsamurai@sh.itjust.works 4 points 4 days ago

That's a harder question.

Part of it is the written version. O and 0 tend to look the same, so there's a tendency to think of them as the same.

Part of it is the "hardness" of the syllables. Zero vs cero vs zéro, vs the confusing mass that is zero in Italian.

I hear less Spanish people say O, and I think that's because cero is pronounced almost as a single syllable. The r is short, and the O is said with almost no lip shaping.

Contrast that with French where it's distinctly zay-ro or zay-ruh with that nasal thing on the last syllable.

But, I have less exposure to French speakers (really only french Canadiens, a few cajuns and Creole, and whatever is on tv), so my sources could be skewed. Since all my experience with French speakers saying "oh" (usually with that nasal thing) is pretty much from people living in the US, it could be they picked it up from English.

My exposure to Italian amounts to chef boyardee and one exchange student

I have heard Germans do it when reading off telephone numbers, and I mean from Germany, not even living here in the states.

[-] Wolf314159@startrek.website 13 points 4 days ago

It's shorter than saying zero and it's only ever used where context makes the it obviously not the letter. Also, almost all of the other digits are single syllables too. Seven is arguably (I'm no linguist) the only other multi-syllable digit and I think it gets a pass because it's barely more than a single syllable unless you emphasize it.

[-] Drusas@fedia.io 12 points 4 days ago

In Japanese, they sometimes call 0 'circle' (maru).

Very much not an American thing or even an English language thing.

[-] tanisnikana@lemmy.world 1 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Yeah, but it just gets shortened to 零, れい, one syllable.

Edit: I would much rather say れい than ゼロ, just slides off the tongue faster.

[-] tiredofsametab@fedia.io 2 points 2 days ago

It depends; a lot of commercials I hear still say maru or zero compared to rei, but I think that's for rhythmic and mnemonic purposes. I'm not immediately sure of other contexts.

[-] Drusas@fedia.io 1 points 4 days ago

Rei and maru are not related to one another. Rei is used a lot less frequently than you would think.

[-] tanisnikana@lemmy.world 3 points 4 days ago

Has my Japanese gotten that bad that I’m being corrected on that too? That was my first language.

sigh

[-] Drusas@fedia.io 2 points 3 days ago

Language evolves pretty quickly. Do you still live in Japan? You hear 'maru' a lot in recent years. I agree in regards to saying 'rei' versus 'zero'.

[-] tanisnikana@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago

Nah, I've been in Oregon since I moved here. My English is pretty good now though; I pass as a native English speaker now, and generally don't let people think otherwise. Once in a long while I'll hear people shit talking me for being trans in Japanese, but not often (it usually happens in English, sadly).

[-] Drusas@fedia.io 2 points 2 days ago

I'm sorry to hear that. Hopefully your neighbors will become more tolerant with time.

[-] megane_kun@lemm.ee 3 points 4 days ago

Oh! A native speaker! I'll take this opportunity to ask: Is there a distinction between 零 and ゼロ or is it more or less interchangeable?

[-] tanisnikana@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Background context: white woman, Air Force baby, moved to to America with my dad when he got redeployed when I was 11, scrambled to learn English, polished up my English with shit like Magic the Gathering, Futurama, and later, Disco Elysium, and am lately struggling to maintain my Japanese so I don’t feel linguistically homeless.

That said: it mostly just depends on whether you want stylistic choices of picking more English loan words (very modern, funky-style) or if you’re more of a traditionalist. Sometimes I’d use ゼロ when giving driving directions, but I’d also use 零 when telling time.

So yeah, I don’t know.

Edit: using 丸 in both of these contexts is weird but sometimes I’d use 丸 in phone numbers. Fuck, who opened this can of worms?

[-] megane_kun@lemm.ee 2 points 3 days ago

Thanks for answering. I am not Japanese, nor a Japanese speaker of any level, but I dabbled into the language a bit.

I've had this notion that 「零」 is akin to ‘null’ or ‘naught’ in English while 「ゼロ」 is more about the digit ‘0’. It seems logical to me, but if there's anything I've learned learning languages it is that languages are not always logical, sometimes not even making sense.

RE: 丸 IDK where I've heard 丸 being used for phone numbers but I also remember it being used that way.

[-] tanisnikana@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago

But 零時半 gets used quite a bit, especially for people like me, who have no fucking restraint and don't go to bed on-time.

Like any language, inconsistencies abound everywhere.

[-] admiralpatrick@discuss.online 11 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Both. The letter 'O' and the number zero look similar, and it's half the syllables making it easier when reading out a string of numbers. Like how saying "World wide web" is less syllables to pronounce than "www".

[-] ilovededyoupiggy@sh.itjust.works 5 points 4 days ago

I usually pronounce www as "dub dub dub" if it is absolutely necessary to be spoken.

If that puts me on anyone's "to be punched" list, so be it.

[-] OpenStars@discuss.online 1 points 2 days ago

Is it okay if I say this?

j/k, I just really like that show and character:-)

[-] Rhaedas@fedia.io 3 points 4 days ago

And in the trend of languages adapting to usage, saying "www" seems to have dropped off once browsers started automatically inserting it and making it the default prefix if another isn't used. Not that it isn't used, just far less.

[-] spankmonkey@lemmy.world 6 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Is it simply that O and 0 look similar, and that “oh” has fewer syllables than “zero”?

They look aimilar and in some sentences it just rolls off the tongue better '3 oh 5' for the time of day for example just sounds 'better'. A lot of english wording seems to favor sounding 'better' when it is less rigidly structured. It might be rrlated to how english as a language loves to incorporate words and phrasing from other languages so frequently that being inconsistent ends up being a feature as it allows for easy additions.

[-] Blaze@feddit.org 5 points 4 days ago

Is James Bond Zero-zero-seven or oh-oh-seven?

Genuinely asking, it's been a while I watched a James Bond movie

[-] SatyrSack@feddit.org 9 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Another great example! It's pronounced "double oh seven" in the original English films, but I believe foreign dubs pronounce it correctly as "cero doble siete" or equivalent.

[-] xia@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 4 days ago

They used to call them 'oughts', maybe it's an 'oh' for oughts?

[-] Zachariah@lemmy.world 3 points 4 days ago

It’s pronounced ’o as a contraction of zero.

[-] SteposVenzny@beehaw.org 2 points 4 days ago

People used to say aught for zero. Might have evolved from that.

this post was submitted on 13 Dec 2024

30 points (100.0% liked)

AskUSA

170 readers

116 users here now

About

Community for asking and answering any question related to the life, the people or anything related to the USA. Politics is inescapable, but please keep things that are overtly political to other communities such as:

Rules

Be nice or gtfo
Overtly political discussions belong elsewhere
Follow the rules of discuss.online

Sister communities

Related communities

founded 1 week ago

MODERATORS

OpenStars@discuss.online

admiralpatrick@discuss.online