A core tenant of socialism is a democratized workplace, being able to vote for your wage and company policy, like an Engineer choosing when to launch the rocket instead of some MBS degree.

Last time I checked I dont think factory workers in China that make all our shit can do that.

Eh, there's a notional aspiration to socialism at least, which is more than can be said about the US sphere of countries.

In practice though? Yeah, China is hyper-captialist, without much of the social security present in wealthier countries.

Why Leftist get a hard-on for the former USSR, Russia and China, or frankly any country, is beyond me.

There are positive and negative outcomes in line or against socialist ideals everywhere (I think people are too black and white about China in both directions personally)

I just do not understand simping for any country, just because they are "socialist".

China has a Socialist Market Economy, it hasn't reached Communism of course but at the same time the Public Sector covers over half of the economy, and is gradually folding the Private Sector into it with the degree to which it develops. This is the process Marx and Engels described a Socialist State would take. From Principles of Communism:

Question 17 : Will it be possible to abolish private property at one stroke?

Answer : No, no more than the existing productive forces can at one stroke be multiplied to the extent necessary for the creation of a communal society. Hence, the proletarian revolution, which in all probability is approaching, will be able gradually to transform existing society and abolish private property only when the necessary means of production have been created in sufficient quantity.

The backbone of the PRC is central planning and public ownership, Marx is regularly taught in class, and Marxism-Leninism continues to be the dominant and guiding ideology. They are ideologically Communist, and it is rather silly to protest otherwise simply because they haven't immediately siezed all property, which would be anti-Marxist as the PRC is still underdeveloped.

The purpose of Marxian analysis of Capitalism is the insight that markets naturally centralize and develop complicated methods of planning. You can't just will these into existence, and markets provide a quick way of creating them. Once they have sufficiently developed, markets cease to be the best tool to use, and public ownership and central planning becomes more efficient. Given that the PRC is Marxist, it stands to reason it is useful to analyze them with a Marxist lense. I have yet to see a genuine Marxist take on why the PRC is not Socialist, only liberals paying lip service to Marx yet vulgurizing him into a Utopian Idealist, and not a Materialist.

lemmygrad, and lemmy.ml 😭

Learnt this the hard way, my first account was on lemmy.ml

It's easy, mmmm'kay!

If you find one, let us know

No. Failing to praise all US empire efforts to diminish China is "letting China win". There cannot be a "some good some bad" view on China. "all bad only" is allowed.

It's funny, but not surprising how much you're down voted here. The meme is heavily upvoted for equating (presumably US) imperialism and (presumably Chinese) authoritarianism. But give an example of how much worse the US is, and people who pretend to hate imperialism fall over themselves to defend the US.

Who else has more than 750 bases in at least 80 countries worldwide and spends more on its military than the next 10 countries combined.

And yet Russia still managed to launch a war with casualties on par with Iraq. Sorry sunshine, if you're a global power, you've got a body count in the millions. Period.

Shoot... US imperialism is soft-serve ice cream compared to the empires of history. Those military bases by and large extend the American security umbrella to protect the host country, not to put its population to the colonial boot and extract wealth. Yeah they sort of have to tow the line on US foreign policy, but it's a far cry from, say, the Boer enslaving natives in South Africa or Alexander the great wiping out populations who defied him.

The US has a long laundry list of dirty deeds, but overall the US "empire" has led to the longest and wealthiest period of global peace and scientific/technical/social advancement in the history of humankind. That doesn't excuse anything but neither is it particularly useful to condition our allegiances on utopian absolutes of moral purities. When we do, evil wins (e.g., see recent election where 10M Democratic voters stayed home).

Really though, the level of imperialism apologizing I’ve seen has been pretty humorous on this platform. Like people will say with a straight face that we need to support our client state Israel to secure our regional interests.

Is this being federated from some platform other than Lemmy? Because I have literally never seen someone support that position here.

I'd say that Russia is the biggest source of suffering caused by imperialism in the world right now ( just going by the death toll of the Ukraine war ) . Is saying that a 'distraction' from American imperialism?

People that are being literally killed, tortured, displaced, bombed, denied their identity, starved, raped, genocided right now by China/Russia/North Korea, looking for any support, any help from anyone willing to give it

A Leftist American: US is the biggest source of imperialism in the world and you're not being oppressed by the US, so you're not real. Have a good day. takes a privileged slurp from the huge cup of Starbucks and closes his Macbook

Corporate leftists, the "libruls", are right wing political actors pretending to be left wing for a variety of reasons. Supporting business over people is fascism and the liberals are fascists who don't mean to be.

Average ml user

No, they are saying one side being bad doesn't make "the other side" perfect or immune to criticism

The US participating in the Palestinian genicide does not excuse Russia invading Ukraine. The US invading Iraq does not excuse nationalists in India attacking Muslims

It is not the same thing, and western imperialism doesnt make non-western imperialism ok. Even if it is a lot worse