312
submitted 2 days ago by MicroWave@lemm.ee to c/world@lemmy.world

Summary

Ukraine fired US-made ATACMS missiles into Russia’s Bryansk region, marking the first time Ukraine has used these longer-range weapons to strike targets deep inside Russia.

The attack comes after the Biden administration authorized Ukraine to use these weapons against targets inside Russia.

In response, President Putin updated Russia’s nuclear doctrine, labeling aggression from non-nuclear states supported by nuclear powers as a joint attack on Russia.

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[-] perestroika@lemm.ee 41 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Some notes, to help folks stay better informed:

  • Ukraine has been firing ATACMS into "Russia" (occupied and annexed Crimea) for a good year already, without World War 3 breaking out

  • Ukraine has its own missiles too (mostly cruise, not ballistic, but they had at least a few dozen Soviet-made "Tochka" SRBMs) and they've been firing those at high value targets in Russia from day one of getting invaded, it's simply that their supplies of Tochka have almost entirely run out, and their home-grown missile industry is a big fat target for Russian attacks (despite which Ukraine produces missiles, but currently not ballistic missiles of a practically usable sort)

  • ATACMS is effective and practical, with a cluster warhead it has shown ability of taking out Russian air defense batteries (S-400 and such), which are difficult targets to attack

  • this time too, air defense failed to stop them and they caused secondary detonations at a large ammunition storage site

  • since Russia is still attempting to conquer Ukraine, now with added North Korean soldiers sent by their dictator, there continues to be plentiful ground for other countries to supply Ukraine with more advanced stuff to fire at the invaders, lest they invade more of Ukraine or start invading elsewhere

  • foreign ballistic missiles that Russia has fired into Ukraine include North Korean and Iranian missiles, so foreign-made BMs flying about is ordinary stuff in this war

[-] TheAlbatross 65 points 2 days ago

I wonder what the mental calculus about this is, considering that Biden knows a fucking moron is going to have to handle the fallout

[-] calabast@lemm.ee 114 points 2 days ago

I think he know Trump is going to help Russia in every way possible, so he might as well let Ukraine get since more serious hits in now while they can

[-] Quill7513@slrpnk.net 50 points 2 days ago

yeah… with ukraine already talking diplomatic peace talks, i think they're just trying to use the next 60 days to get the best possible terms

[-] Maggoty@lemmy.world 7 points 1 day ago

Pretty sure Zelensky is just trying to keep a lid on Trump and appear high minded to other western governments. Then when Russia's demands are ridiculous he can point to them and go back to fighting with more support.

[-] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 9 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

I think he's delivering on his promises to the MIC to maximize the money they invested in him before Trump enters office. If he gets us wrapped up in a conflict that requires deployment of US troops, so much the better for the stockholders depending on the Federal Government to get us as involved as possible.

Trump, while he did it for the wrong reasons, did pull the US military out of foreign wars during his first term. I imagine Raytheon and Boeing and Lockheed definitely do not want that.

[-] TranscendentalEmpire@lemm.ee 28 points 1 day ago

Trump, while he did it for the wrong reasons, did pull the US military out of foreign wars during his first term.

Lol, my dude..... You do remember he also ended the nuclear agreement with Iran and then assassinated their most idolized military commander?

The pretext of Israel's ethnic cleansing is to rope America into a hot war with Iran. Trump is and has always been great for the mic.

Such a bad take.

[-] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago

Lol, my dude… You do remember he also ended the nuclear agreement with Iran and then assassinated their most idolized military commander?

I recall, yes.

It feels very odd to watch an American president do correct things for the wrong reasons. It's much more familiar to watch people like Bush, Obama, and Biden doing the wrong things for reasons that aren't provided to the public, because the narratives given around US wars are nearly always false.

[-] TranscendentalEmpire@lemm.ee 18 points 1 day ago

feels very odd to watch an American president do correct things for the wrong reasons.

Lol, war with Iran... A correct thing?

[-] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

No, I'm referring to getting us out of Afghanistan and Syria specifically.

But you've noted, surely, that the US does largely support war with Iran by funneling WMD's to Israel, right? Unless you voted Green, you explicitly lent your support to it via your ballot.

[-] TranscendentalEmpire@lemm.ee 8 points 1 day ago

No, I'm referring to getting us out of Afghanistan and Syria specifically.

Oh yeah, how are the people in those two countries doing now?

you've noted, surely, that the US does largely support war with Iran by funneling WMD's to Israel, right?

Yeah, it was pretty much guaranteed after the pull out from the nuclear deal....almost like elections have consequences.

Unless you voted Green, you explicitly lent your support to it via your ballot.

Lol, it's a two party system. If you voted green you still lent your support to supporting a genocide, just in an incredibly stupid way.

We all pay taxes to a government supporting a genocide, some of us just don't want it to get even worse.

[-] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

Oh yeah, how are the people in those two countries doing now?

I could not care less. I'm more concerned with how people are doing here in the US.

Yeah, it was pretty much guaranteed after the pull out from the nuclear deal…almost like elections have consequences.

I'm sure feeding WMD's to the Israelis for use against Iran won't be problematic for that.

Lol, it’s a two party system. If you voted green you still lent your support to supporting a genocide

False. The Greens are the only party expressly opposed to helping Israel murder people at will, but you can create whatever justification you like for the support you lend to it.

[-] MutilationWave@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago

Just so I have this straight- you care deeply about Palestinians but don't give a shit about Syrians or Afghans? Why?

[-] TranscendentalEmpire@lemm.ee 7 points 1 day ago

could not care less. I'm more concerned with how people are doing here in the US.

Lol, at least you admit it.

I'm sure feeding WMD's to the Israelis

I'm pretty sure you don't care about that.

The Greens are the only party expressly opposed to helping Israel murder people at will, but you can create whatever justification you like for the support you lend to it.

Again, I think you need to look up what a two party system is.

[-] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

Thank you for the discussion.

It's fascinating to watch you and others engage with people who you know disagree with you in this way, especially after two weeks ago.

[-] TranscendentalEmpire@lemm.ee 8 points 1 day ago

I wish I could say the feelings mutual.

It's fascinating to see how people like you seem to imagine everyone who disagrees with you as some sycophant obsessed with a political party. When in reality I'm not a fan of Democrats, and expected them to lose. I'm just kinda disgusted with the amount of people who don't understand the very basic concept of harm reduction.

I am the product of a bi-racial marriage, in a bi-racial racial marriage, living in one of the most conservative states in America. I'm worried for trans and queer friends, I'm worried for my openly bisexual wife, and I'm worried about some of my patients. Several of which are families that have been brave enough to seek gender affirming care for their kids in Oklahoma of all places.

The last time Trump was elected we had to do so much more work creating mutual aid and self defense networks. When that man is in power, people get more aggressively bigoted.

I get that symbolically voting green is great. In reality everyone knows that in modern times it's statistically impossible for 3rd parties to win any significant election. It's just sad to realize that so many people forget the very basics of mutual aid. And on a personal note, financially it's just not a great time for me to restart my defense and aid budget.

[-] hddsx@lemmy.ca 28 points 2 days ago

Russia says there’s going to be no peace talks without recognizing the new boundaries so, might as well carve out a big part of Russia for the Ukraine

[-] Quill7513@slrpnk.net 14 points 1 day ago

Ukraine*. "the Ukraine" is an outdated term coined by people who never recognized Ukraine's cultural sovereignty

[-] samus12345@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago

"The Ukraine" and "Kiev" were two outdated 80s terms I had to update in my head when the war started.

[-] Quill7513@slrpnk.net 5 points 1 day ago

one of my best friends told me in 2020 it hurt her feelings a little when people used the term. not because they hurt her feelings, but because it meant societally, our understanding of her and her family's struggles came predominantly from people who hated them. it's worth relearning for the people it effects.

[-] yournamehere@lemm.ee 2 points 1 day ago

thats the spirit.

[-] tekato@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

Biden knows

Well…

[-] modifier@lemmy.ca 17 points 2 days ago
[-] Kbobabob@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

Pork butts? Mmmmm

[-] werefreeatlast@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago

I moved my car several times in the time it took for this to happen. How about approve things, fire the weapons and then wait 3 days to let everyone know?

[-] Valmond@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago

Ya, at least they didn't leak they were permitted to hit more than Kurdk oblast.

[-] werefreeatlast@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago

If that was me, I would launch directly into the Kremlin and putin's mansions.

[-] foenkyfjutschah@programming.dev 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

thanks that you are not in the position to escalate the imperial shit show into a full blown nuclear mess.

this post was submitted on 19 Nov 2024
312 points (100.0% liked)

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