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"Most of the world’s video games from close to 50 years of history are effectively, legally dead. A Video Games History Foundation study found you can’t buy nearly 90% of games from before 2010. Preservationists have been looking for ways to allow people to legally access gaming history, but the U.S. Copyright Office dealt them a heavy blow Friday. Feds declared that you or any researcher has no right to access old games under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, or DMCA."

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[-] CosmoNova@lemmy.world 130 points 11 months ago

Read a comment a while ago that if libraries weren't a thing today and someone would propose them, the FBI would be on their ass and stalk after them for even suggesting such radical views. Copyright law is utterly broken and a disservice to society in it's current form and execution. Politicians need to get their fat fingers out of the stock market by law.

[-] tehn00bi@lemmy.world 38 points 11 months ago

I really feel like the source code needs to be released after 25 years. We need to be able to protect older games.

[-] wavebeam@lemmy.world 8 points 11 months ago

I’ve been saying that we need to have a law on the books to require any online components of a game be required to have the source to those features be released upon closure of the online service. I would be fine with them then being except from any security liability for anyone who gets hacked by use of that software and even retaining ownership of the IP, so no one could sell access to the service, but being able to stand up fan-run servers for old Xbox-live games or dead MMOs more easily would be really great. I’m locked out of so many PlayStation trophies simply because online servers have been down for ages now.

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[-] xep@fedia.io 104 points 11 months ago
[-] beejjorgensen@lemmy.sdf.org 48 points 11 months ago

I'd say it's more intolerably long copyright terms than the DMCA specifically.

[-] seaQueue@lemmy.world 45 points 11 months ago

The DMCA is just the icing on top of the 95-120y "work for hire" copyright duration shit cake.

[-] mPony@lemmy.world 74 points 11 months ago

FTA

Industry groups argued that those museums didn’t have “appropriate safeguards” to prevent users from distributing the games once they had them in hand. They also argued that there’s a “substantial market” for older or classic games, and a new, free library to access games would “jeopardize” this market. Perlmutter agreed with the industry groups.

So as long as someone, somewhere, might make a penny off of them, they can't be free. Insert your own metaphor here.

[-] zarenki@lemmy.ml 25 points 11 months ago

This argument is even more ridiculous than it seems. During the copyright office hearing for this exemption request (back in April), the people arguing in favor of libraries talked about the measures they have in place. They don't just let people download a ROM to use in any emulator they please. It's not even one of those browser-based emulators where you can pull the ROM data out of your browser cache if you know how. It's a video stream of an emulator running on a server managed by the library, with plenty enough latency to make it very clearly a worse gaming experience.

It's far easier to find ROMs of these games elsewhere than it is to contact a librarian and ask for access to a protected collection, so there'd be no reason to redistribute the files even if they were offered, which they aren't.

On top of that, this exemption request was explicitly limited to old games that have been long unavailable on the market in any form, which seems like an insane limitation to put on libraries, places that have always held collections of books both new and old.

All of that is still not enough to sate the US Copyright Office, the ESA, AACS, or DVD CSS. Those three were the organizations that fought against this.

[-] BrianTheeBiscuiteer@lemmy.world 20 points 11 months ago

It's been demonstrated multiple times that when you make access easy and affordable people will pay for it over pirating it.

[-] Pulptastic@midwest.social 17 points 11 months ago

The same logic would apply to books. ::gestures at library::

[-] Dark_Arc@social.packetloss.gg 8 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

There is a difference there in that these are digital copies (easy to make more copies) vs physical books (hard to make more copies).

That said, the only reason this is an issue is copyright lasts too long on relatively short lived games. If copyright on games was a more reasonable "15 years since their last major revision", this wouldn't be a problem.

[-] ExcessShiv@lemmy.dbzer0.com 13 points 11 months ago

There is a difference there in that these are digital copies (easy to make more copies) vs physical books (hard to make more copies).

Libraries rent out ebooks too, also easily stripped of DRM and copied if someone wants to so that. But that is seemingly not an issue.

[-] Bazoogle@lemmy.world 9 points 11 months ago

As someone who may or may not have stripped DRM from library books, they certainly never seemed to care about that. And it was never even to share, but rather to store for myself so I could read it at my own pace. And the worst part... I read it for RECREATIONAL USE

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[-] kent_eh@lemmy.ca 8 points 11 months ago

They also argued that there’s a “substantial market” for older or classic games, and a new, free library to access games would “jeopardize” this market. Perlmutter

And if that market demand isn't being catered to, or is being actively refused to be served, is there any wonder people are finding other ways to get that stuff?

All they're doing is hoarding this old software and preventing its use based on the speculation that they might eventually figure out a way to profit from long gone developers work.

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[-] cmnybo@discuss.tchncs.de 65 points 11 months ago

People will just continue pirating those games then.

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[-] dubyakay@lemmy.ca 65 points 11 months ago

It sounds like the problem is not with the feds but with the DMCA. It needs to be overturned.

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[-] uriel238 61 points 11 months ago

Feds are wrong, or would be if copyright continued to serve its original purpose (according to the Constitution of the United States) to create a robust public domain.

All media should be accessible through public libraries, and arguments by federal courts presumes that the public does not have vested interest in content. It presumes the government isn't there to serve the public, which raises questions as to why we have government in the first place.

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[-] Vaggumon@lemm.ee 59 points 11 months ago

Yo ho ho and fuck the police

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[-] wavebeam@lemmy.world 58 points 11 months ago

They’re right. I have been using old videos games for recreation. Too bad that they’ve decided to prevent me from paying for the privilege or at least being tracked through library usage and have instead decided it’d be better if I was just an untrackable “criminal”

Either way, I’m enjoying these old games and living my life guilt free.

[-] Bazoogle@lemmy.world 24 points 11 months ago

You'd better not also be reading books for fun. By their logic, any recreational use of books from a library should also be considered illegal.

[-] postmateDumbass@lemmy.world 7 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Only legal for educationale, reproductioning, or ownin dem libs. (sic.)

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[-] Blackmist@feddit.uk 47 points 11 months ago

OK, I'll download them then.

[-] reddig33@lemmy.world 45 points 11 months ago

“Fair Use” is a thing. Someone needs to go back to law school.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use

[-] seaQueue@lemmy.world 39 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Pearson is trying really fucking hard to write that out of the public consciousness. I took an econ 101 class about 12y ago for funsies and the section of the course on copyright insisted that "the rights of copyright owners" were absolute with no exemptions.

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[-] MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml 40 points 11 months ago
[-] ExcessShiv@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 11 months ago

Hey now...we all of course only have copies of our own blurays and DVDs on our home media servers.

[-] JoeKrogan@lemmy.world 40 points 11 months ago

Sharing is caring

[-] kaffiene@lemmy.world 36 points 11 months ago

And thus. Again, piracy seems to be the moral choice

[-] grrgyle@slrpnk.net 15 points 11 months ago

Pirates now the only ones preserving this culture, yeah

[-] Hackworth@lemmy.world 33 points 11 months ago

Shithole country.

[-] Fedizen@lemmy.world 29 points 11 months ago

insane takeover of the public square here.

[-] SplashJackson@lemmy.ca 22 points 11 months ago

Land of the Free, everybody

[-] m3t00@lemmy.world 16 points 11 months ago

good emulators out there. haven't tried any lately

[-] Rai@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 11 months ago

Hell yeah. Everything “retro” is easily emulated. And anything easily emulated has a ROMpack of all of the games that exist for it, you can download if you have a HDD that costs less than the cost of the original console alone.

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[-] RangerJosie@lemmy.world 13 points 11 months ago

Oh yeah? ~reaches for feathered Tricorn~

You don't say? ~shifts buckaneer coat across shoulders~

No, you don't mean that? ~straps on pistol/saber belt~

Why would you say such a thing ya daft cunt ? ~quote by nearby African Grey Parrot~

https://youtu.be/gP9qaDhcSwQ?si=fXLBBjA0VxJeHcja

[-] EnderMB@lemmy.world 12 points 11 months ago

The problem with these fundamental rulings is that they're largely trying to fit square objects through round holes. When a simple ruling is made to essentially say "to current law, no", the law itself ultimately becomes meaningless, because older games couldn't be easier to pirate. Most of them are smaller than a TikTok video, and are so cheap/easy to host that you'll never stop them from being shared. Hell, emulation has come so far that you can effectively emulate these games on a browser, on multiple devices, even devices that don't natively support gaming.

The smart thing to do would be to say that maybe the legal framework that embodies retro gaming needs to be researched and heavily considered. It's a hard task that'll require many lawyers, many fights, and lots of lobbying to ensure the word of law is worth something. Sadly, it's easier to say "lol no" and to essentially just promote piracy.

[-] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 11 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Does this mean my library isn't allowed to have games you can check out anymore? It's been doing that (and other things that aren't books) for at least a decade now with donated items.

[-] yamanii@lemmy.world 9 points 11 months ago

This is more about the online one you can do with books and movies, they wanted to expand it to retro games and ESA fought tooth and nail to deny it.

[-] NutWrench@lemmy.world 11 points 11 months ago

I'm glad I keep backup copies of anything that might be important later on, like the 40 gig MAME Rom library.

[-] mm_maybe@sh.itjust.works 11 points 11 months ago

Well, maybe we need a movement to make physical copies of these games and the consoles needed to play them available in actual public libraries, then? That doesn't seem to be affected by this ruling and there's lots of precedent for it in current practice, which includes lending of things like musical instruments and DVD players. There's a business near me that does something similar, but they restrict access by age to high schoolers and older, and you have to play the games there; you can't rent them out.

[-] nucleative@lemmy.world 8 points 11 months ago

I could lend out my old computer with old games installed to somebody else to use, right?

What if instead i lend my hard drive, is it still the same thing? Or what if I lend out my remote access screen sharing password to my old PC. Still the same?

Maybe the legal workaround is to game the system here a bit - forget downloading executables which feels a lot like pirating and just lend access to a system that is legally running the original license.

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[-] Telorand@reddthat.com 8 points 11 months ago

Alright. Now enforce it. Good luck with that.

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this post was submitted on 27 Oct 2024
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