"Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends. I have not much hope that Gollum can be cured before he dies, but there is a chance of it. And he is bound up with the fate of the Ring. My heart tells me that he has some part to play yet, for good or ill, before the end; and when that comes, the pity of Bilbo may rule the fate of many - yours not least."

- Gandalf, The Fellowship of the Ring

The only times when it's ok to take a life is when there are NO other options.

Ruthless capitalists can cause more death and suffering than any serial killer or mass shooter. In many ways, they're a group so driven by calculating costs and benefits that the threat of death would be more effective as a deterrent than for anyone else.

However, even these people don't deserve to die if you can simply prevent them from holding that power instead. All that matters is that they can't do more harm. Unless they insist on defending their wealth like scarface, just prevent them from being that powerful ever again.

I had an argument with someone online recently where I advocated for removal of national boarders and they came back with, "what about bad people" to which I responded, who are the bad people? And if I consider you a bad person would you be alright being kicked out of your country and not allowed to return. We spoke for about 3 hours and my whole argument was that if he considered rapists (they said rapists and murderers were bad people) fit to be prevented from entering his country would they willingly leave if their wife accused them of rape.

They just couldn't allow themselves to follow through with the thought, it simply stopped with, "I'm a good person" and even when asked if they received consent before sexual acts they said,"no, but I'm not a rapist, I'm a good person"

They love laws like this, because in their minds, they could 100% NEVER be applied to them.

I feel like pedophilia (along with zoophilia and possibly even coprophilia) is a mental disorder and should be studied so it can be properly treated.

The "pedophile" thing has always been a front for conservatives to wedge in, from what I've seen. They saw a real problem and then, as they always do, fearmongered and inflated it way out of proportion to reality, then started to expand the definition.

I'm old enough to remember when pedophile actually meant people trying to engage in sex with children. As in, actual children. The definition began expanding to older and older people, and expanding into fiction, fictional characters, and more.

They also started getting weird about any men being near children. I am also old enough to remember when fathers, uncles, and generally men, could be in public with kids without a woman around and without being looked at with suspicion. These days we hear countless stories of men stalked, harassed, and threatened when they're out with kids they have every right to be with.

And that's just the stuff that affects everyone, not just minorities and marginalized people. How the left ever got on board with this pedophile panic I don't understand, considering conservatives have been equating LGBT with molestation and pedophilia as long as I can recall. Anyone who didn't see this coming from the beginning is a blind fool.

I think it was the Catholic Church thing. A real case of pedophilia committed by figures generally considered conservative and right wing, which the left rightfully jumped on attacking...but then kept going when conservatives egged them on further instead of stopping. People got tricked into going nuts on it cause the right was all 'well if that's bad then you must condemn this...and this...and this...and this...' with each step being something less and less real, less egregious, less of a true problem. But they're good at stoking hate, and once the hate was kindled in people it took less and less to spread it just slightly further each time, until now we have people ostensibly on the left calling for censorship of completely fictional works and punishment of people who produce or consume them, despite no actual harm to any actual people being involved.

And that's exactly the level of unthinking hate they want, for people to not stop and consider whether any actual harm is being caused, just condemn and punish and don't argue or dispute the severity of what you're calling for. Just hate, just view them as monsters, deserving of death. Even as the definition keeps expanding.

After all, what group is othered and made the enemy doesn't matter that much to them, only that some group is hated to the point of an unexamined desire for violence and death. They can work with that, after all.

Once you make one group acceptable to kill, you give others a vested interest in defining groups they have prejudice against into that group.

So... they're going to make us all billionaires?

I agree with a lot of points the post is making, but there is also one group in particular, that isn't only responsible for turning society against each other, literally dragging us back in to fascism, but is waaaaay above the law and would always remain that way until the system that put that law in place and enforces it is abolished, which is a complete impossibility without using force.

Do I think all billionaires should die? Not necessarily, but I do think they should cease to exist as billionaires.

Do I think any billionaire would, at first, just give up their money and power and just agree to be like the rest of us? Not a fucking chance.

So yeah, while prison isn't a real threat to them, and they have all the power, and adamant refusal to give it up, I see them as a group it is acceptable to kill, because they see us all as acceptable to kill (and they actively are).

You simply can't compare a random citizen, however harmful to the people around them, to the handful of people who literally control the entire world economy, and all of the abuse and destruction it brings with it, killing millions annually (via artificial scarcity and other methods of deliberately depriving people access to food, water, shelter, and medicine for preventable disease, not to mention other exploitation like slavery or starvation wages, child labour, as well as the patriarchy, queerphobia, and so on which encourage gendered violence and the kind of murder OP is talking about).

Part of being on the left is considering systemic power structures, and understanding that they can not be addressed in the same way an individual offender is.

And for the record: I don't believe in the death penalty and I don't think paedophiles, rapists, and murderers should be executed, because as opposed to billionaires, they can be removed from society in different ways, because they don't own it.

I’m okay with fascists and other repeat offender threats to the planet being thrown in a prison forever. They don’t have to die and no one has the right to determine whose life is forfeit and whose isn’t. But if they repeatedly endanger the lives of others, including animals, they need to be away from society.

Texas is set to execute yet another person and Missouri executed an innocent man despite the DA’s objection and new evidence.

The death penalty is acceptable for people like Netanyahu.

Disagree, lots of stuff can void your right to life. The issue with killing people, even those who deserve it, is that Innocents can be caught up in that.

You have to start dealing with the fact that no crime makes one’s life forfeit

What about fascists? Shouldn't their lives be forfeit? :3

This is probably one of the more tragic results of the mess we're in right now and there is no good solution. Not killing anyone would be ideal, but not enough people feel that way or we wouldn't be killing each other as much as we do.

You can't change a bigots heart unless they want to change. You could kill them, but what difference would there be between you and a bigot at that point? These kinds of problems take generations to sort out, which is unfortunate for all the dead southern queer people who will be murdered legally in the years to come.

So what should we do with them?

The broad argument fails, for the same reason as 'banning Nazis makes you as bad as the Nazis.'

Bad faith only works because it resembles good faith. It's an irrational abuse of a decent argument. That abuse does not disprove the argument. If we avoid things just because some asshole can abuse them, we are paralyzed, because there is absolutely nothing that assholes cannot abuse.

Maximizing everyone's freedom and dignity means having some restrictions.

Maximizing who survives means some violent bastards get got.

Cmon being leftist doesn’t mean you open yourself up to abuse and manipulation at the hands of socios or psychos. There shouldn’t be sympathy or empathy for anyone who deliberately hurts other people. Can we rehabilitate them or punish them, yes. Should we “let 100 guilty go free” or some bs, hell no. Be real, this is how nice people end up getting fucked over by cult leaders