ID: A Sophie Labelle 4 panel comic featuring Stephie in different poses, saying:
Landlords do not provide housing.
They buy and Hold more space than they need for themselves.
Then, they create a false scarcity and profit off of it.
What they're doing is literally the opposite of providing housing.
No one should get a second home until everyone's had their first.
The policy issue to overcome here in America is a robust pension system. Home values are obscene for a lot of reasons but one of the biggest reasons no one does anything about it is because for most non elite Americans the home they own is their most valuable asset and the growth in equity ends up becoming a significant contributor to retirement
Even with that the dream is over; the days of baby boomers buying houses and seeing explosive growth of 12-20k in 1960 to 200ish-k in 2010 or even gen x buying a house for 100k in 1995 and seeing it mature to 400k in 2020 are unsustainable. The people buying 250-400k houses now (like me) would be foolish to expect their homes to be worth millions in 30 years outside of hyperinflation.
But I bet money we will cling to it. It’s difficult having seen the past several generations retire very comfortably via the equity in their home, while we make the $2000 mortgage payment that will get us housing but not this benefit. Another way millennials get fucked out of something that every modern generation before them had. To be fair this one had to die but it just sucks all of this gets saddled on us because it’s not like there’s a strong likelihood social security is getting fixed in time
Hear hear.
Rich people: "Can I have a 4th home, just as a little treat for myself?"
I honestly wouldn't be so upset about a "mom and pop" landlord that is renting their basement or garage (where I currently live...) if they weren't charging more than their fucking mortgage for it...
It's infuriating that I'm paying for their house but I have to live in a garage because I was late to the party and new loans/house prices are absolutely bat shit insane...
But but "the market!"
The market:
The Market is also why my company tells us our pay is low, our raises are terrible, and next year we have to take shitty Cigna health insurance and like it. (And is Absolutely definitely not because CIGNA is suddenly one of our single largest clients who we also just closed a new additional deal with.)
if they weren’t charging more than their fucking mortgage for it…
Disgusting freeloaders.
Alright but...there actually is a legitimate service that landlords provide. If someone does not want to own and maintain a property for a long period of time, or doesn't have enough money or means to satisfy a lender that they will be able to repay a very large loan on that property over a long time, a rental agreement is beneficial. Grad students, visa holders, travel nurses, etc probably don't want to purchase the property they're temporarily staying in.
You don't have to rent from a landlord, you should have the ability to rent from a nonprofit, a co-op, etc. Housing is a human right and should never be about profit.
Landlords aren't the exclusive source for short term housing, and don't need to be defended in this way. Advocate for and support collective ownership via housing cooperatives. Landlording is the practice of leeching money from the working class.
There is a legitimate service being provided there. It just shouldn't be "lords" who provide it.
The problem is that the "lord" is earning tens of thousands of dollars per year for essentially no work. This makes it essentially similar to how a "lord" worked in a Feudalist system. This isn't even capitalism where someone owns capital and uses that capital to generate profit. This is just demanding a payment for being in a place.
Since being a landlord requires essentially no work, landlords can accumulate wealth, buy more property, get even more income, buy more property, etc. More wealth / property means more political power. The main thing that political power will be used for is to gain and retain more wealth, which is equivalent to more power.
Imagine how different would be if nobody could ever rent out more than one property, especially combined with a vacant units tax. You'd still have "landlords" but they would be much less lord-like.
there actually is a legitimate service that landlords provide.
one I don't want to pay for, but also one they don't actually give me. My apartment is still missing several doors and I've been here for a year now. They don't give a fuck. You're also setting it up as if I have a choice but to be serviced. I don't. I don't earn enough money for my bank to want to give me a loan, even if I wanted to be in debt, to buy even the shittiest house on the market here, so I don't have a choice but to live under the thumb of a landlord.
I rent my house to military who don't want to buy because they'll leave in 2-3 years
Don't ever call what landlords do a service. They do it for profit. It's not a service.
But a good landlord with fair prices will prevent evil landlords from price gouging tenants! /s
I mean this can happen, but nobody should have to rely on the good will of some random person. Thats one thing i learned as a kid, never trust people with money amounts of that order unless they are legally obligated to fullfill their promises. People can be super cool and nice right until they need money.
I don't really want to pay for a house and experience all the expenses that come with it. Owning a house involves paying out of pocket for maintenance whereas when renting, you can have the landlord take care of that for you, and it doesn't involve paying whoever comes to fix your stuff.
Additionally, owning a house would basically anchor me to one location, which gives me less flexibility as a digital nomad.
If you value home equity then buying a house is definitely ideal. But this isn't the case for everyone.
...oh, sorry. I forgot this is Lemmy and that you can't have a different opinion under any circumstance. My bad!
You don't need landlords for non-ownership and temporary housing solutions to exist.
The problem isn't Lemmy, the problem is your insistence on remaining under a boot, and clear unwillingness to explore options beyond your existing and narrow (E: and indoctrinated by capitalism) view of the world.
For what its worth, they are not speaking on the same subject as you and I doubt they have even thought about material relationships in the same way you have. They just see buying vs renting and the practicalities of each, but not the implications on the relationship between renter and owner.
I doubt they see themselves as under a boot (I mean, I know I didn't think that when I started renting) or that they are indoctrinated by capital. We all gotta start learning this shit somewhere. I mean I get it: Once you realize that the rat race is bullshit, it's easy to get upset at others who are still running as if it is legitimate. But most of us were running at one point. When you lead people out, it's gotta come from a softer place than "you are indoctrinated and live under a boot."
That's exactly my point. Thank you for understanding.
It's okay that you don't want to own a house. Those are legitimate practical concerns that you bring up. Certainly renting comes with some conveniences, like being able to move, not having to worry about utilities, repairs etc. (although, if you have a bad landlord, you may still have to worry about that stuff)
But at the end of the day, you are still paying for someone else's ownership of an asset and thereby increasing their wealth at the expense of your own. They are leveraging your need for shelter to increase their own personal wealth. It's not about the pros and cons of renting vs buying. It's about the inherently unequal material relationship between you and your landlord.
If there are alternate options for renting a place, then I'm open to hear it. As of now, though, simply walking up to someone and asking to rent their place seems like the easier and more straightforward option.
I am only speaking from experience here. I understand the situation varies from person to person. I'm not personally concerned with my own wealth. I have found apartments with comfortable monthly rent, and I have found places that don't seem to have a fair rent that I've quickly moved out of. I can afford groceries and save a bit for some personal expenses. So far, I have had no negative experiences with any landlord I've rented from despite the rent pricing.
If it's the idea of landlords owning places and offering them for rent that people here are bothered about, then I'm not sure I understand their perspective. I respect it nonetheless, but I suppose I am just not as frustrated as most people are with the situation
If there are alternate options for renting a place, then I’m open to hear it.
Public housing. Well funded, well run, public housing. Rip out the profit motive.
You probably have to remove all the conservatives from power first because they ideologically do not want a government that does good things.
Also probably repeal faircloth, which arbitrarily limits how much public housing there can be.
Owning a house involves paying out of pocket for maintenance whereas when renting, you can have the landlord take care of that for you, and it doesn’t involve paying whoever comes to fix your stuff.
Those costs are almost certainly built into your rent. It's not free. You also risk the landlord just not fixing things.
You’re not wrong, you’re just not participating in the same conversation.
Like if someone says “Hey, Disney World is an abusive and corrupt enterprise” and you reply “But I like going to Disney World and I don’t want to close it down”.
There should be a way to address the problems without abolishing the whole thing.
But if we can’t even admit the problems because we’re afraid of where it will lead, we’re never going to improve anything.
Owning a house involves paying out of pocket for maintenance whereas when renting, you can have the landlord take care of that for you
Your rent is quite literally paying for the maintenance. You think landlords are just losing money on maintenance out of the good of their own hearts? Of course not, it's just all bundled up and averaged out into one price with your rent.
owning a house would basically anchor me to one location, which gives me less flexibility as a digital nomad.
Cool, that's one of many benefits of housing cooperatives. They can act similarly to a landlord in terms of you sharing the cost of repairs with the whole building, which reduces risk, and they don't have a profit motive, since they're non-profits, so rent is lower than with a landlord. Some even let your rent buy you equity in your unit, which you can then sell later to get some of your money back if you decide to move, much better than the for-profit landlord that will give you nothing. The only issue is, these cooperatives are repeatedly outbid by corporate landlords, which means there's far fewer of them than would be ideal.
Additionally, I've seen some startups like Cohere that seem like they'll eventually be able to give you even more flexibility, allowing you to move between units in various locations without having to sell the old one or file annoying paperwork to start a new lease, with at least somewhat cooperative ownership. (although, of course, this is a for profit company, which isn't as ideal)
I can definitely understand wanting flexibility, but there are ways to get that which don't involve overpaying to a for-profit landlord. I can understand not caring much about equity, but of course, that's why non-ownership housing cooperatives exist.
But to actually make those things more widely available, you need to reduce the market power held by for-profit landlords. If they did not exist, these alternatives, primarily the cooperatives, could fill back in the gaps, but provide lower prices, better service, actual equity for those who want it, and still keep the flexibility you get from renting.
There is a solution for landlords that we've known about for a long time.
And its doesn't involve the a massive, powerful state controlling where people can live.
Its a 100% tax on the value of land. It would stop the landowning class from unfairly stealing huge amounts of money from the poor in the form of rent. It could fund the government (allowing us to decrease taxes that hurt labor, like an income tax), or be redistributed as UBI.
Seriously, if you are at all interested in potential solutions to the housing crises and wealth inequality, please, please, google Land Value Tax and Georgism.
Oh my god, tell me about it.
Even when you want to rent a place and can afford to do so, landlords make the situation really difficult because many of them put up places supposedly for rent, but make it as difficult as possible for someone to actually qualify to rent it, since they're only doing it to inflate their net worth and having someone living there apparently devalues it. It took me over a year to find a place that actually was willing to let me rent it because most others would cook up bullshit reasons to reject me (my personal favourite being one that got mad at me and put me in their blacklist for... asking too many questions about their property???).
Like... I have money. They are offering a good in exchange for money. I am willing to spend money in exchange for this good. It shouldn't be this hard.
Corporate landlords specifically.
Single Family Houses – The 5 Biggest Buyers In America
As SFH investors and property managers we may find ourselves bidding on the same property as a major fund. You might get a call from a fund that wants to buy your portfolio. You could end up partnering with a fund as its local operator. You never know.
Phoenix was the first city that had just about all the major private equity firms investing in single family houses. Private equity helped drive prices in Phoenix up by 34% as you can read about in this Bloomberg article here. The next city that attracted just about all the major private equity firms was Atlanta GA. Other popular markets are CA, Chicago and Florida. PE firms are looking for markets that have experienced the biggest bubbles that have resulted in the biggest swings in values.
We call those non-linear markets. The goal is to hold properties as rentals and wait for a housing recovery. These funds are averaging about an 8% return on investment where most major multi-family / apartment funds return about 5 or 6%. Linear markets like Tulsa OK, Louisville KY, Indianapolis IN, Fort Worth TX, Columbus OH, and Kansas City have been some what over looked by the biggest players. However, there are plenty of funds coming into the linear markets with up to $50 million (which is considered a small fund) to spend on houses.
Ok but where's the punchline? Why is this even a comic?
Not all sequential art is meant to be funny.
Side note: One of the best non-fiction books of all time is Understanding Comics by Scott McCloud.
so are you advocating for zero private ownership of houses?
like what's the policy proposal?
I do kind of like that other comment, " nobody gets a second house until everybody gets their first".
All of it should be public property.
Landlords provide serfdom, and they are needed because of the serfdom the worst offenders impose on society.
If you live in a house long enough you should begin to have a claim on it. Most landlords add zero value to it, they only harvest it.
If the landlords do not provide a service, you're welcome to go to the bank to approve your loan, buy or build a house, maintain it, pay back the loan and deal with delinquent renters and sell it when it's time for you to move out. None of which concerns you as a renter.
It is a massive PITA and it's a so-so store of value at best. That there are assholes who charge you through the nose for the rent doesn't mean it's a landlord problem. It's an asshole problem.
My landlady just put my rent up fifty quid. She owns (and rents out) 23 other properties. She's raking in everyone else's money. Fuck landlords.
Nobody tell this dude about co-ops, market rate housing, non profits, etc.
it's a so-so store of value at best.
For that to be true you need to be living in a place where price/rent has not doubled or even quadrupled in the past 10 years.
I don't understand how would a 100% land tax work? If you own a 300k house you'd have to pay 300k in taxes every year? So basically making housing unaffordable except for the ultra rich?
Also why would anyone build apartments if they weren't going to make a profit? What's the incentive? No one would do anything if they couldn't make money doing it.
If landlords are bad or too expensive why not move, another building another state another lower cost of living area? Agreed rents are super high but that's mostly in dense urban areas. You're paying a premium for location.
I'm really not seeing any honest answers here about how to fix this problem. Besides the government should provide everyone free housing? How would that work how would you decide who gets to live where? Who gets the apartment on the lake vs next to the airport/oil refinery?
Like I get it housing is expensive but I haven't seen anything here that would actually help fix that? Ironically more landlords and more apartments would probably help.
The main driving factor is this "down payment" shit. A person who has a bunch of money can just go get a house and not actually pay for it fully. They can still loose all that money, there's risk there if they can't pay. And that's the difference. Everyone else can't put down that much money. So they can pay a landlord more money than the landlord pays monthly, but they don't have 2 or $300,000 bucks at risk each and every day. I mean, the landlord is payed for the risk they incur.
So a renter only loses a small amount of money if they fail to keep paying rent. However, they pay more each month and also, they loose relatively more when they loose housing and become homeless. So the situation is fucked up. You could for example barely own a house and then stretch and buy a second house with not much left in savings. If you're in that situation, you're a different landlord than a bank who basically only incurs a monetary risk and not a loosing everything you got risk.
Because of this. Maybe we should bring down the "down payment" bar shit. I mean the house could be destroyed by a renter or an owner, but the house will still be there. Banks literally can only lose a little bit of time between ownerships. So if you could purchase a house with just $5000, for example, that would be pretty easy to do for most people who have a job. At least relatively much easier to $300k. You can sell your house to the bank and get yourself a new house. Literally nobody loses if the down payment level is lowered to something reasonable. Ultimately, the banks will always own houses. So why not just state it clearly....you don't own this house but if you had 3 lifetimes, you could. And bring down the payments accordingly to people's income. Keep it locked at 10%. If we did this, what would prevent you from owning a mansion? Okay limit housing to reasonable sizes? Control traffic by only allowing people to own near where they work? So you live 1 mile from work and then you find a new job, congratulations! Now you can be part of the people who can buy near that area.
I don't know nothing. I'm just posting some stupid ass ideas.
Housing is still wildly speculative in pricing: detangle housing from investment, and people could actually afford to own homes
And the main factor driving down payments is housing prices, which are driven by landlords. Less landlords > less scarcity > lower prices > lower down payments.
On top of that, housing cooperatives exist, which can provide the benefits of renting (lower monthly payments than a mortgage, economy of scale for repairs & construction, less financial liability for the individual) without the negative effects of a for-profit landlord. (you progressively own more of your unit over time instead of never owning any of it, you pay lower monthly rates than you would to a for-profit entity)
They even have different ownership models, which could give more choice for pricing. For instance, the non-ownership model means you pay a lower rate, just the cost of continuing the providing and upkeep of the housing, with no additional profit margin, but you don't end up owning any of the unit you live in. But the ownership model means often paying a bit higher pricing, but in turn, getting to actually own the unit you live in, and later sell it off if you wish to move. (some cooperatives have caps on how much higher you can sell it for compared to your purchase price, others do not)
But in the end, the one thing that makes housing more expensive, that outbids cooperatives for housing, and that increases the scarcity of the market, is for-profit landlords.
The only way you get any true positive change on down payments, housing prices, or housing availability, is to completely ban all for-profit landlording.
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