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submitted 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) by UnpopularCrow@lemmy.world to c/politics@lemmy.world

EDIT: See @AnimePhantasm comment below! My friend called the election board and they confirmed what @AnimePhantasm and @fmstrat commented! This was Virginia reusing last year’s envelopes.

OP I am an absentee voter in Blacksburg just next door. Shine a light on the blacked out part. I am 99% sure this is legit, they just crossed out the witness requirement. I can see the word witness under the sharpie in your picture. Virgina doesnt have to do that witness thing anymore. We did at the last general election, so I am guessing they just reused the same envelopes. You should call and ask your elections office before alerting the news. They are hardworking folks whose jobs are already 100 times harder then they used to be. Stirring up reports of election fraud where it isn't happening makes us just as bad as them.

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[-] superkret@feddit.org 363 points 1 week ago

This is a felony, and can likely be traced back to the election helper who did it.
Report it!

[-] UnpopularCrow@lemmy.world 253 points 1 week ago

My friend is reporting it.

[-] Sonicdemon86@lemmy.world 46 points 1 week ago

Report it to the news stations as well.

[-] CptEnder@lemmy.world 23 points 1 week ago

I don't usually recommend this but also post on Reddit and X. This needs to get out there.

[-] UnpopularCrow@lemmy.world 16 points 1 week ago

I don’t have an account on either. I use to have one on Reddit, but you know how that went over the past 16 months. Never had an account on twitter. Feel free to post this yourself if you have an account on either.

[-] PoopingCough@lemmy.world 191 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

A lot of the virginia ballots were mailed out with the return envelopes already sealed up. I called the election office and they said to cut them open and just seal them back with tape 🤣

Edit: to all the folks concerned about my vote, thank you for your concern. I'm not too worried about it for several reasons. You can check online to see when your ballot is received and accepted, so I'll be doing that. If it isn't accepted in the next week or so I'll definitely be making some calls. Worse comes to worse, I can always go to my polling place on the day and get a provisional ballot in case something happens to my mail-in. I live in a pretty blue area so I have some trust in the local offices here; they've given no reason for me to be suspicious. Nonetheless I'll still be double checking.

[-] themeatbridge@lemmy.world 116 points 1 week ago

This can happen if the envelopes get damp, but they should send you a replacement. Otherwise, someone could swap out your ballot and then just tape it closed.

[-] PoopingCough@lemmy.world 69 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Which is exactly why I called my local election office, and I even mentioned it might have been because of the rain we were having, but I was told no, it wasnt the damp that caused it because they had confirmed with the factory that sent the ballots out that some had been sent out like that. They then told me to tape it and when I was hesitant because I had the same thought as you they told me they had checked several times with the registrar that taping them up was what to do. They said it was a known issue so it would be accepted.

[-] match@pawb.social 53 points 1 week ago

holy shit they are going to steal your election

[-] A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world 24 points 1 week ago

This and the original Op image are why I refuse to do absentee/mail in voting.

Theres just so many ways it can be fucked with, and potentially handwaved away. Especially at an institutional level in the less reputable coughconservativecough states.

Mail in ballot used to be fine, and safe, and secure... but 8 years of fucking domestic political terrorism/usurpation/insurrection/etc have kicked that out the door, down the stairs, into the street and infront of the bus.

I don't care what I have to do, what sacrifices I have to make, and what I have to endure.

I'm voting in person this election, cause its too important not to.

and everyone else should too.

Cause in person voting is the only way to minimize the fuckery they can pull.

[-] Serinus@lemmy.world 24 points 1 week ago

Another way is to discourage people from early voting and then lose some percentage who end up not voting on election day either.

You're not wrong. I'll be voting in person for this reason. But if you're not 100% sure you'll make it on election day, vote early. Preferably do it in person.

Some votes will likely count more than others.

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[-] CM400@lemmy.world 15 points 1 week ago

I mean sure, I pretty much agree with you, but…

There were so many fucking trumpers hanging out at the parking lot of my voting site last time, I don’t want to be (or for my family to) around that shit.

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[-] Chip_Rat@lemmy.world 15 points 1 week ago

...what...

How can an election office accept envelopes that have been tampered with? Call them back and record the answer, then call local news, blast them on every social media you have, put a crazy persons handwritten sign in your window about it, whatever it takes. The person who said they would accept envelopes that had been cut and taped just admitted they will accept votes that may have been tampered with....

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[-] gsfraley@lemmy.world 41 points 1 week ago

Same thing happened to me in Pennsylvania. Will be watching very carefully on the ballot status emails to make sure it's still accepted.

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[-] billiam0202@lemmy.world 18 points 1 week ago

I'd call your local TV station or newspaper. Let them investigate and publicize it, and if it's all aboveboard at least it'll be out in the open.

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[-] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 169 points 1 week ago

Don't just call the election office, call the local news, get it trending.

[-] EndlessApollo@lemmy.world 126 points 1 week ago

It's almost as if Republicans can't win the popular vote and have to cheat or something (:

[-] WoahWoah@lemmy.world 29 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Just to be real, they really don't care about the popular vote. They care about the electoral vote. And even that isn't totally true. They care about the electoral victory. They long ago abandoned democracy; they don't care about having democratically granted power. They just want the power.

A little felony by blacking out a mail-in ballot is literally the least they're ready, willing, and able to do to win.

I continue to be incredibly frustrated by how little democrats have done to counter the fraud, voter suppression, constitutionally dubious laws, takeover of state election boards and volunteers, and armed, volunteer "ballot watchers" the Republicans have deployed.

The republican "ground game" that extends beyond simply GOTV efforts and campaigning and into the wide-ranging and widespread strategies and tactics to literally dismantle and inhibit the democratic process has been met with very little resistance by the democrats. Somehow they're going to be blindsided by this, cry foul retroactively, and then be hamstrung trying to play defense from behind. Wilfully ignorant, short-sighted, and incredibly dangerous idiocy for something so fundamentally important.

The democrats don't have to be unethical because the Republicans are, but they should have been being proactive and serious about countering these attacks on the democratic process. Instead the approach seems to be sticking their fingers firmly in their ears and going "lalalalala."

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[-] inclementimmigrant@lemmy.world 114 points 1 week ago

Yeah, clear cut election fraud.

Anyone want to take bets on it being a Republican behind this?

[-] OutlierBlue@lemmy.ca 16 points 1 week ago

They're the ones always claiming there's fraud. They must know something we don't.

[-] RestrictedAccount@lemmy.world 16 points 1 week ago

Do you know who the fraudster is

[-] AnimePhantasm@lemmy.world 70 points 1 week ago

OP I am an absentee voter in Blacksburg just next door. Shine a light on the blacked out part. I am 99% sure this is legit, they just crossed out the witness requirement. I can see the word witness under the sharpie in your picture. Virgina doesnt have to do that witness thing anymore. We did at the last general election, so I am guessing they just reused the same envelopes. You should call and ask your elections office before alerting the news. They are hardworking folks whose jobs are already 100 times harder then they used to be. Stirring up reports of election fraud where it isn't happening makes us just as bad as them.

[-] UnpopularCrow@lemmy.world 25 points 1 week ago

Excellent point. I alerted my friend to your post. I don’t have the envelope, they just sent me the picture. They go to bed early but I’ll update you in the morning.

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[-] Veedem@lemmy.world 60 points 1 week ago

Honestly that is scary to see. People are going to lose the chance to influence. A true potential for a stolen election.

[-] insaneinthemembrane@lemmy.world 56 points 1 week ago

Can someone explain this to a non US person please? You sign your votes?

[-] Khanzarate@lemmy.world 65 points 1 week ago

For mail-ins, yeah, you sign it to do the final "I authorize this document to be my vote".

If you don't authorize it, it's not legally your vote.

[-] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 35 points 1 week ago

NY requires you to also sign the registration book when you vote in person.

https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/ELN/8-304

[-] lectricleopard@lemmy.world 12 points 1 week ago

There's a difference, signing the book is done before you vote in person in ny, and is not associated with your ballot or who you voted for. So in person there's no way to know who you voted for.

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[-] match@pawb.social 19 points 1 week ago

something you have to remember about the US is that while it's a democracy, all the democratic practices were started in the 1800s, often with explicit intention to negate the votes of some discriminated group

[-] modifier@lemmy.ca 16 points 1 week ago

And one party is doing their best to keep that heritage of disenfranchisement alive.

[-] krelvar@lemmy.world 19 points 1 week ago

For mail in balloting at least in my state you sign the return envelope NOT the ballot itself.

[-] femtech@midwest.social 12 points 1 week ago

In Illinois they give you two, well 3 technically. The one everything comes in, the one you put the ballot in, and the one you put the ballot envelope in. So the signature is not on the outside or on the ballot itself.

[-] FlowVoid@lemmy.world 18 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

You sign the envelope that contains the ballot. That way, an election worker can compare the signature on the envelope to your signature on file.

This is how they make sure that someone didn't steal the ballot from your mailbox and fill it out for you.

Once the signature is verified, the envelope is opened and the anonymous ballot inside is removed and stored with all the others. When they are counted, there will be no way to tell who filled out each ballot.

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[-] seaQueue@lemmy.world 18 points 1 week ago

I've always had to sign my vote by mail ballot envelope in CA. They keep a signature on file from when you last registered to absentee (not vote at your polling place) vote and compare the two to see if someone else is trying to vote in your name.

[-] UnpopularCrow@lemmy.world 16 points 1 week ago

In order for a mail in ballot to be valid, the person must sign the envelope.

[-] AlpacaChariot@lemmy.world 12 points 1 week ago

Yep, we have the same system in the UK. In fact, the envelope looks almost exactly the same so they might even be printed by the same company.

You get two envelopes (one big, one small), a postal voting statement, and a ballot paper.

The actual ballot paper just has a list of options for you to put your X against; there's no personally identifiable information on it. Once you've filled it out you seal it in the small envelope.

You then fill in the voting statement (it has your name and address on it so they can cross your name off as voted, and you sign it so they can check your signature matches the one on file) and both that and the sealed ballot go in the big envelope. That way your vote is still private because they check the vote is valid in one step and then add your ballot to a pile to be counted with the others in a second step, at which point it's anonymous.

https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/voting-and-elections/ways-vote/how-vote-post

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[-] ObsidianZed@lemmy.world 56 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

This brought up a concern of mine that I had last year. I tried looking but couldn't find it. Is there a way to verify that my vote was counted and specifically counted for whom I voted?

Edit: To clarify, my state does have voter history but only what elections I vote in, not how I voted.

Worst case scenario, someone intercepts my ballot and/or changes my vote. Website says "yep, you voted." Great, but I want to know it was counted correctly.

Ultimately our whole voting system needs an overhaul, but I doubt that'll happen anytime soon.

[-] otterpop@lemmy.world 28 points 1 week ago

I don't believe there is, and if there was, it could be used for some really nefarious purposes!

[-] HappyTimeHarry@lemm.ee 22 points 1 week ago

in my state (OR) you can sign up for an email that says when your ballot was counted but not who you voted for.

[-] leds@feddit.dk 18 points 1 week ago

Yeah there is a good reason for that to be secret: it prevents buying votes because you can't prove who you votes for, if someone offers you money to vote a certain way you can always take the money and vote the other way, no way to prove how you voted.

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[-] just2look@lemm.ee 18 points 1 week ago

I don’t know if all states have it, but Virginia does have vote history on their voter registration page. It doesn’t show what your vote was, but does show that it was received and counted.

[-] Simulation6@sopuli.xyz 12 points 1 week ago

Maryland sent me an email last time that my vote had been counted, but not for who.

[-] IphtashuFitz@lemmy.world 10 points 1 week ago

If you mailed in a ballot then there should be a way to confirm it was received, but there should NOT be a way to see who you voted for. Just like they can confirm that you voted in person, but again can not tell who you voted for when you showed up to vote.

Typically when you vote by mail you receive a ballot plus two envelopes. You fill out the ballot and put it in the inner envelope that should contain no markings as to whose ballot it belongs to. This is put inside the second envelope that should have your contact information (my state uses a barcode for this) and that you have to sign.

When the city/town clerk receives the ballot they look up your voter registration & confirm the signature on file matches the signature on the envelope. They then check off in their records that you voted by mail on that day. They take the inner envelope out of the outer envelope and add it to the other pile of envelopes they’ve received. At some later point they open those envelopes and count the ballots, but have no way of associating a given ballot back with the person who mailed it in.

If you then try to go vote in person on Election Day (or somebody tries to impersonate you) then their records will show you already voted and you won’t be allowed to vote again.

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[-] fmstrat@lemmy.nowsci.com 33 points 1 week ago

Could be old instructions for witness signatures vs anything malicious. Be sure this is a real issue first. Last time they sent out conflicting instructions which was worse. But yes, report it to be safe.

From: https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/virginia-absentee-ballot-instructions-confusing/2020/09/23/4ec4dfa8-fd1b-11ea-9ceb-061d646d9c67_story.html

Joan Porte, vice president of the Virginia League of Women Voters and an Arlington resident, said she was furious when she saw the error on the envelope, which could have been solved, she said, by crossing it out with a marker.

More info: https://www.democracydocket.com/news-alerts/virginia-legislature-passes-bill-to-remove-witness-requirements-for-mail-in-voting/

[-] UnpopularCrow@lemmy.world 11 points 1 week ago

Thanks for this information. I alerted my friend. I’ll update the post if you are correct.

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[-] ravhall@discuss.online 30 points 1 week ago

Gotta be prosecuted for it to be a crime.

[-] Nastybutler@lemmy.world 28 points 1 week ago

You might see if you can get this to the Meidas Touch guys too. They could help research and amplify this to the national media

[-] Krauerking@lemy.lol 22 points 1 week ago

Bless Lemmy for being able to edit a post.

[-] Serinus@lemmy.world 12 points 1 week ago

Is this the year old thing where the witness signature requirements was removed, but it was still included in the instructions?

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this post was submitted on 06 Oct 2024
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