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Bike-loving Dutch grapple with illegal electric 'fatbike' craze gripping the Netherlands (fortune.com)

submitted 6 days ago by FartsWithAnAccent@fedia.io to c/micromobility@lemmy.world

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Some 17,500 fatbikes imported from China have been held by Dutch authorities over concerns about speed manipulation and safety risks.

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[-] teft@lemmy.world 67 points 5 days ago

But the fatbike fad — they are especially popular among teenagers — has triggered a myriad of complaints and prompted a call for new legislation aimed at restricting their use.

Apart from the humming noise made by the large tyres on the road, authorities are also concerned at the ease in bypassing software that restricts their speed to the legal limit.

I'm sure the same people complaining about fat bike tire noise have never once complained about the much louder sound of car and truck tires.

[-] rtxn@lemmy.world 45 points 5 days ago

Wait, hang the fuck on...

the ease in bypassing software that restricts their speed to the legal limit.

As opposed to the insurmountable difficulty of pressing the car's accelerator pedal a bit harder?

[-] Annoyed_Crabby@monyet.cc 36 points 5 days ago

It's an issue when these vehicle sharing the same bike lane with mostly slow moving bike. They've already done with fighting car so I don't think it's fair to just bring car into the mix. These thing is already a moped if it can exceed road bike speed with ease.

[-] whodatdair 35 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

Yeah the Netherlands has basically a dedicated bicycle infrastructure meant for pedal cycles. There is a whole bunch of context for this story that is easy to miss if you don’t live there.

It’s not about cars vs e-bikes - it’s about not being allowed to bring an ultra powered bike that’s unsafe for other riders. It’s more akin to how your car has to follow regulations to be allowed on the road.

That shit about noise is just old people being old people. It’s the potential safety issues that got these bikes held up in customs.

[-] Annoyed_Crabby@monyet.cc 9 points 5 days ago

Yeah, we're talking about Netherlands here, the cycling haven of Earth, if they think these super pedelec is an issue on bike lane you better take note of it if you want a safe cycling city. These thing have the max speed of 30 to 40mph(48/64kmph) after unlocked and it would get really ugly if it hit someone, as people there tend to not wear helmet when riding bicycle because it's unnecessary and super safe to do so.

If you ever had a car/moped/motorcycle that zoom by you in 50kmph while riding on the road you know how scarry that is.

[-] curbstickle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 5 days ago

I'll be candid, I was expecting faster. 30mph is pretty regularly doable on a road bike (obviously not a fatbike, but just talking sharing a lane here), not sustained unless you're riding in the TDF, but as a sprint? Yeah, definitely doable.

Just to be clear I'm not saying it wouldn't be a problem at 30-40mph for these fatbikes, because you're talking about anyone being able to do those speeds, fully sustained for long periods, just that I was expecting even higher from the way it was being described.

At the same time I want one to try out...

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[-] FiskFisk33@startrek.website 9 points 5 days ago

the cars don't use the bike lane.

[-] TheOctonaut@mander.xyz 3 points 5 days ago

It's the Netherlands, the cars aren't automatic.

[-] Shou@lemmy.world 35 points 5 days ago

Fuck off mate. We have seperate lanes for bikes and cars. We've been hating on vehicles going too fast on the bike lane since their existance. Scooters, e-bikes and anything else that's a danger to other cyclists.

[-] FartsWithAnAccent@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Both of you need to chill the fuck out: You can disagree and argue without the personal attacks.

Both of you get a temporary ban. In the future when you are here you need to win your arguments without attacking the person.

[-] teft@lemmy.world 14 points 5 days ago

Firstly check your attitude, dick.

Secondly I'm a cyclist. I was only pointing out the absurdity of complaining about road noise from a bike that is at most 50dB when road noise from cars hovers in the 90dB range yet no one ever complains about car noise.

Thirdly, not every city has separated bike and car lanes. I personally have no issue with fast moving bikes in the same lane as me because I'm not a coward like you seem to be. I also know how to handle my bike properly and keep my head on a swivel which helps me avoid accidents.

[-] FartsWithAnAccent@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Both of you need to chill the fuck out: You can disagree and argue without the personal attacks.

Both of you get a temporary ban. In the future when you are here you need to win your arguments without attacking the person.

[-] No_Eponym@lemmy.ca 27 points 5 days ago

Firstly, check your attitude, dick. Secondly, I'm a cyclist.

[-] Shou@lemmy.world 12 points 5 days ago

It's not about you mate. Or your pathetic bravado. "Oh look at me, I don't mind people making the bike lane less safe because I'm so brave! Road safety? That's for whimps!"

As if teenagers aren't at risk here, or anyone else who travels by bike.

And where comes the idea from that people don't complain about loud trucks/cars? That's some made up bs. Nor does it at all solve anything about the boosted issues of fatbikes/scooters. Which is more traffic accidents!

[-] TheOctonaut@mander.xyz 24 points 5 days ago

It's the Netherlands, if you're a self-described cyclist, they like bikes more than you do. Your assertion is a bad one.

[-] RandomlyRight@sh.itjust.works 3 points 5 days ago

Is it so hard for Americans to imagine that there could be places that are not directly next to a road? lol

[-] ramirezmike@programming.dev 4 points 5 days ago

could it be possible that these bikes can go faster, and thus are louder, than the cars and trucks can go within city streets in the Netherlands?

[-] Kalkaline@leminal.space 47 points 5 days ago

I don't see anything wrong with the electric motorcycles, but they shouldn't be on a pedestrian or bicycle path, they should be on the street and you should need a license to drive them just like any other motorized vehicles capable of those speeds.

[-] DarkThoughts@fedia.io 14 points 5 days ago

Electric motorcycles and electric bicycles are two very different things.

[-] twix@infosec.pub 7 points 5 days ago

Well they were. But these fatbikes bring them on par, with a throttle instead of having to pedal, a riding stance similar a scooter and an unlocked speed limit.

[-] DarkThoughts@fedia.io 5 points 5 days ago

That's not a fatbike / bicycle then, but I have no idea about the context here. The photo shows a regular fatbike hardtail, with rather small tires even.

[-] twix@infosec.pub 7 points 5 days ago

There is a link to the article without paywall somewhere in the comments, but yes, the image is a wrong one (or actually a real, non electric mtb fatbike). The “fatbikes” we have here in the Netherlands look like this:

[-] DarkThoughts@fedia.io 7 points 5 days ago

I don't see a paywall, it just does not contain anything but the stock photo. Your example looks more like a moped, which is indeed a motorcycle and should fall under the same regulations.

[-] twix@infosec.pub 5 points 5 days ago

The problem the government faces is how to make a distinction between moped and a classic e-bike. Because from the factory there is no real difference apart from “oh it looks a bit like a moped”. My vote goes to setting the minimum age for assisted riding at 16 (except medical reasons) or at least obligating having a helmet under the age of 18 (to protect their poor undeveloped brains). Which will immediately kill the attraction which is to ride a moped without helmet. The real challenge is regulating e-bike unlocking in general (as well as adding a throttle). Which is hard because the electronics can quickly be set back to factory with a click of a button.

[-] Shou@lemmy.world 15 points 5 days ago

That's the issue. They aren't supposed to go that fast. It's an illegal alteration for a reason. And we are talking about teenagers.

They don't need a driver's licience to ride a bicycle. So people may not know how to traverse traffic safely if they go on the car lanes. Or not care about safety as teenagers tend to do.

[-] tacosanonymous@lemm.ee 30 points 5 days ago

This article reads like an awesome ad and meow I want one of these bikes.

[-] FartsWithAnAccent@fedia.io 17 points 5 days ago

Buy two so you can make an ebike chariot!

[-] tenchiken@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 5 days ago

Mine is pretty sweet... The tires made it much more comfortable to ride in general and having the motor for the assist on hills is frikken amazing. Really helps prevent the deterrence against using it as a bike.

The motors have quite the kick too... I expect the urge to get into trouble is great.

[-] TriflingToad@lemmy.world 9 points 5 days ago

did a cat write this?

[-] NoForwardslashS@sopuli.xyz 11 points 5 days ago

Meow can you tell?

[-] FartsWithAnAccent@fedia.io 5 points 5 days ago

The prose are all nimbly bimbly!

[-] tenchiken@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 5 days ago

Heh, I think I just got one of these types inadvertently.

1000 watt motor (2x 500), large batt etc... I think it does close to 35 mph if I try but I haven't even taken it out of pedal assist yet.

I'm in USA, so laws are more localized. I suspect this thing might be illegal, but it's gray area right now. Gonna just behave with it and hope for the best.

The concern I would have is that currently there isn't great established ways to get something like this clearly made legal... And I have a needed use case.

I weigh enough that clearly legal lower wattage bikes are all not rated for me... Barely. I'm using the bike to lose weight. In the interim, this is what works.

I hope they clear it in some capacity, like just age or "legal until you are stupid" like riding it on public sidewalks or such. A wattage limit overall is stupid unless there's a way to certify you will behave.

[-] Tarquinn2049@lemmy.world 6 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

The way laws like this tend to be enforced is generally either someone has to report you or you have to cause a problem and then are also retroactively charged for the other infractions. So if you are already doing your best to be safe and not annoying, that's all you can do. Fly under the radar.

[-] Annoyed_Crabby@monyet.cc 3 points 5 days ago

I'm using the bike to lose weight. In the interim, this is what works.

That ain't gonna help much, especially when you rely on a powerful motor to help move you. For reference:

https://youtu.be/vSSkDos2hzo

https://youtu.be/mTTLAVnChrw

[-] tenchiken@lemmy.dbzer0.com 25 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

That's fine except I'm not using it in straight power mode, and set my pacing by my heart rate. I'm using it exactly as my doctor advised.

If my heart rate is consistently maintaining elevated levels matching what the doc said, then the video is irrelevant.

An exercise you cannot control the pace of properly is counter intuitive and can be dangerous to certain health conditions. If used correctly, this only expands access to more users.

Key words "used correctly".

There are people needing this kind of assist not from being fat. In my case, I'm in a long haul recovery from a severe spinal injury. Trying to rebuild considerable loss of muscle.

Without the assist, cycling would literally be impossible.

Due to posture needed for long walking, that isn't possible yet for me either. Anything over half a mile destroys me for a full day.

My diet is already advised by a doctor. Your videos present like my food choices and lack of movement are 100% the problem.

[-] FartsWithAnAccent@fedia.io 18 points 5 days ago

FWIW an ebike got me fit enough that I could ride a heavy steel MTB 20+ miles without getting winded. Keep at it and you can get into pretty good shape!

[-] tenchiken@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 5 days ago

That's frikken awesome to hear. I used to do century rides back from the 90's and 2000's, and really have missed the trails.

Thank you!

[-] Annoyed_Crabby@monyet.cc 4 points 5 days ago

Good to hear you're at least using it in their minimal capability as a pedal assist bike and not just blasting it off at the get go. It takes dedication to do the former, not a lot to do the latter. Hope you have a healthy recovery.

[-] CrayonRosary@lemmy.world 3 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

Your videos present like my food choices and lack of movement are 100% the problem.

(I'm not the original commenter.)

That's not at all what the first video is saying. It's saying that exercise is not good for losing weight. That your body will burn the same calories every day regardless of how much you exercise unless you are running marathons or biking like a professional athlete. The science behind it is very interesting. I just happened to watch that video last night. Your body burns fewer calories at rest if you exercise more. So it ends up not making a difference.

Exercise is still very, very healthy. Just not good for weight loss. So, in that sense, yes, your food choices are important because the only way to actually lose weight is by cutting calories.

Watch the whole video. It's fascinating stuff.

I didn't watch the second video and can't say anything about it.

[-] tenchiken@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 5 days ago

That's fair, and understood in most cases that's appropriate.

Unfortunately I'm my case, I need to replace missing muscle mass which should also then in turn burn more calories etc.

I'll return to the video with that in mind. My long term goal is to some day learn from and spar with my buddy who teaches martial arts... He's already helped me with diet adjustment tips to be able to stick to the changes the doc wants.

Fingers crossed

[-] CrayonRosary@lemmy.world 3 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

replace missing muscle mass which should also then in turn burn more calories etc.

That was in the video, too! That matters a lot less than you'd think. But exercising and building muscle is a great idea!

[-] mipadaitu@lemmy.world 8 points 5 days ago

That doesn't tell the whole story, yes, long term you don't actually burn more calories long term by exercising, but it's part of an entire way of life that makes you healthier and you will tend to lose fat.

https://storybicycles.com/blogs/ebike-blog/study-shows-e-bike-riders-get-more-exercise-than-traditional-bike-riders

And studies show that riding an ebike means you are more likely to use it and exercise more, which provides a lot of health benefits, including weight loss.

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[-] mayo@lemmy.world 7 points 5 days ago

https://12ft.io/https://fortune.com/europe/2024/09/13/dutch-illegal-electric-fatbike-craze-netherlands/

Mostly food delivery drivers in my city. They are a nuisance and make bike paths feel less safe and chill.

[-] ohwhatfollyisman@lemmy.world 5 points 5 days ago

if there's a road accident and both riders are dutch, do they share the blame equally?

[-] Blackmist@feddit.uk 3 points 5 days ago

No, they share the blame proportionally depending on who was going the fastest.

[-] njm1314@lemmy.world 4 points 5 days ago

Paywall

[-] shoulderoforion@fedia.io 6 points 5 days ago

https://archive.ph/Pzm8r

[-] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 3 points 5 days ago

My fat old ass is tired of getting passed by them on mbts.

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this post was submitted on 14 Sep 2024

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