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[-] Australis13@fedia.io 191 points 2 months ago

This is one case where I think Windows is appropriately designed for its target audience.

[-] SpaceCadet@feddit.nl 42 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

This isn't "Windows design"... this is just inherited stone age bullshit from the DOS days when the filesystem was FAT16 and all file names were uppercase 8.3.

NTFS is case sensitive in its underlying design, but was made case insensitive by default, yet case preserving, for reasons of backwards compatibility.

If Microsoft has to design something from scratch, without the need for backwards compatibility, they go for case sensitive themselves. For example: Azure Blob Storage has case sensitive file names.

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[-] FQQD@lemmy.ohaa.xyz 106 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

It's neat that Linux has the ability to do this, but I honestly can't think of a good usecase for this. I think this is more confusing than it is useful

[-] poinck@lemm.ee 23 points 2 months ago

Git likes to have a word with you.

[-] Linssiili@sopuli.xyz 34 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Command 'Git' not found

[-] wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 13 points 2 months ago

Huh, what makes this a use case in favor of case sensitive file names? How does git use this feature?

[-] OrganicMustard@lemmy.world 24 points 2 months ago

Create multiple branches that only differ in cases from a Unix OS so it breaks git for Windows users in the same project.

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[-] mrvictory1@lemmy.world 51 points 2 months ago

Windows and NTFS support case sensitive filenames. The functionality is disabled for compatibility reasons.

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[-] RandomLegend@lemmy.dbzer0.com 50 points 2 months ago

And i hate it being case sensitive

[-] MudMan@fedia.io 35 points 2 months ago

Yeah, right? Are we pretending that having case sensitive file names isn't a bad call, or...? There are literally no upsides to it. Is that the joke?

[-] RandomLegend@lemmy.dbzer0.com 29 points 2 months ago

I'm with you here, i find it infuriating and i never ever had the situation where this was beneficial.

Like who tf actually creates a File.txt, file.txt AND FILE.TXT in one place and actually differentiates them with that.

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[-] 30p87@feddit.org 23 points 2 months ago

And I love it.

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[-] art@lemmy.world 47 points 2 months ago

I can make a file named COM1 on Linux. That's on the forbidden list for Windows.

The forbidden list:

  • CON
  • PRN
  • AUX
  • CLOCK$
  • NUL
  • COM1
  • COM2
  • COM3
  • COM4
  • COM5
  • COM6
  • COM7
  • COM8
  • COM9
  • LPT1
  • LPT2
  • LPT3
  • LPT4
  • LPT5
  • LPT6
  • LPT7
  • LPT8
  • LPT9
[-] lud@lemm.ee 17 points 2 months ago

That's because Windows is generally very backwards compatible.

[-] the_crotch@sh.itjust.works 15 points 2 months ago

So is Linux, but it puts stuff like that in /dev

[-] SpaceCadet@feddit.nl 15 points 2 months ago

The thing is, a lot of the legacy backwards compatible stuff that's in Linux is because a lot of things in Unix were actually pretty well thought out from the get go, unlike many of the ugly hacks that went into MSDOS and later Windows and overstayed their welcome.

Things like: long case sensitive file names from the beginning instead of forced uppercase 8.3 , a hierarchical filesystem instead of drive letters, "everything is a file" concept, a notion of multiple users and permissions, pre-emptive multitasking, proper virtual memory management instead of a "640k is enough" + XMS + EMS, and so on.

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[-] stupidcasey@lemmy.world 45 points 2 months ago

But why though? Do you really want a bunch of file.txt File.txt FILE.txt fIle.txt FiLe.txt FIle.txt flIe.txt… I once had a nasty bug the O in a file name was a 0 and I didn’t notice I can’t imagine the horrors this would cause.

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[-] 9point6@lemmy.world 41 points 2 months ago

Oh it's even better, windows explorer can't really do case sensitive

But NTFS is a case sensitive file system

This occasionally manifests in mind boggling problems

[-] Wolf314159@startrek.website 13 points 2 months ago

Yeah, it's super weird. I once named a file with mixed case, but one of the letters was the wrong case. Renaming the file didn't work at first. Renaming a file named PAscalCase.txt to PascalCase.txt resulted in no change to the filename. Windows continued to show it as PAscalCase.txt. I had to rename it to something totally different with different characters entirely, then rename it again to get it right.

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[-] pyre@lemmy.world 41 points 2 months ago

thank god it's not case sensitive holy shit. i don't understand the kind of person who would see that as a positive.

[-] A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world 24 points 2 months ago

Seriously.

It sounds like a fucking nightmare. Imagine working on something for days and it refuses to work cause you accidentally capitalized 1 file name and dont notice it?

That sounds like the kind of shit they'd do in tech hell.

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[-] SpaceCadet@feddit.nl 40 points 2 months ago

Even more annoying is that it's very cumbersome to change the case of a file once you've created it.

If you accidentally create fIle.txt when you meant File.txt, the rename function does nothing ... and it will keep displaying as fIle.txt. You have to rename it to something else entirely, then rename it back to the original name with the intended case.

[-] radamant@lemmy.world 40 points 2 months ago

Windows way is superior, in my opinion. I don't think there's a need for File.txt and fILE.txt

[-] alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml 21 points 2 months ago

FlLE.txt FILE.txt

[-] SpaceCadet@feddit.nl 19 points 2 months ago

I don’t think there’s a need for File.txt and fILE.txt

It's not so much about that need. It's about it being programmatically correct. f and F are not the same ASCII or UTF-8 character, so why would a file system treat them the same?

Having a direct char type to filename mapping, without unnecessary hocus pocus in between, is the simple and elegant solution.

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[-] lily33@lemm.ee 17 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Indeed. Linux ~~audio~~ also allows control characters like backspace to be part of a file name (though it is harder to make such file as you can't just type the name). Which is just horrible.

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[-] FuryMaker@lemmy.world 38 points 2 months ago

Is it just me or is that more of a hinderance?

[-] plumbercraic@lemmy.sdf.org 16 points 2 months ago

I absolutely fail to see the utility of having a user called Bob and bob, or a dir called Downloads and downloads. Capitalisation makes sense in code - at a glance I can know I'm looking at a Class or a var, but for system administration it has only ever wasted time, and not once made anything easier.

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[-] SpaceCadet@feddit.nl 36 points 2 months ago

To screw with Windows users, you should sometimes put a README.md as well as a README.MD in your git repos. It leads to interesting results.

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[-] linearchaos@lemmy.world 32 points 2 months ago

Yeah I've been using Linux for a very long time. The amount of time I've spent on the case being incorrect is non-trivial. I've gotten better at not screwing it up throughout the years but the sum of advantages is far outweighed by the sum of debugging time spent.

[-] ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world 13 points 2 months ago

Case sensitivity is so much of a problem, that in college, people were always told to keep all their filenames all lowercase, to avoid issues with them.

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[-] calcopiritus@lemmy.world 31 points 2 months ago

I'm with windows on this one. Case insensitive is much more ergonomics with the only sacrifice represented by this meme. And a little bit of performance of course. But the ergonomics are worth it imo.

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[-] krimsonbun 29 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

cd downloads

bash: cd: downloads: No such file or directory

cd Downloads

user@pcname:~/Downloads$

[-] falcunculus@jlai.lu 23 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Bash has an option for that you can put in your .bashrc:

bind "set completion-ignore-case on"

Other interesting options exist

[-] InFerNo@lemmy.ml 12 points 2 months ago

Zsh autocompletes lowercase input to the correct file or folder name when using tab. It's great!

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[-] GetOffMyLan@programming.dev 25 points 2 months ago

I find it really fucking irritating on Linux tbh. It knew what file I meant.

[-] Nyoka@lemm.ee 13 points 2 months ago

Yeah as someone who uses both this is really not much of a feature.

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[-] SwingingTheLamp@midwest.social 20 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Case-sensitive is easier to implement; it's just a string of bytes. Case-insensitive requires a lot of code to get right, since it has to interpret symbols that make sense to humans. So, something over wondered about:

That's not hard for ASCII, but what about Unicode? Is the precomposed ç treated the same lexically and by the API as Latin capital letter c + combining cedilla? Does the OS normalize all of one form to the other? Is ß the same as SS? What about alternate glyphs, like half width or full width forms? Is it i18n-sensitive, so that, say, E and É are treated the same in French localization? Are Katakana and Hiragana characters equivalent?

I dunno, as a long-time Unix and Linux user, I haven't tried these things, but it seems odd to me to build a set of character equivalences into the filesystem code, unless you're going to do do all of them. (But then, they're idiosyncratic and may conflict between languages, like how ö is its letter in the Swedish alphabet.)

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[-] maryjayjay@lemmy.world 20 points 2 months ago

The android build system used that limitation of Windows to prevent android from being built on Windows. They purposely had directories with the same name but different capitalization.

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[-] ByteWelder@lemmy.ml 20 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

The main problem with case-insensitive is that software sometimes is lazily developed: If a file is named “File.txt” and a program opens “file.txt”, then on a case-insensitive file system it will work fine. If you then format your drive to case-sensitive, the same software now fails to load the file. Source: tried case-sensitive filesystem on macOS some years ago.

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[-] KingOfTheCouch@lemmy.ca 18 points 2 months ago

The meme faces are backwards on this one.

[-] lastunusedusername2@sh.itjust.works 18 points 2 months ago

This puts the win in Windows

[-] MehBlah@lemmy.world 17 points 2 months ago

What I really like is a naming files with a forbidden windows character in Linux and they wont copy over to a windows partition. I end up using a question mark quite a bit for some reason.

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[-] fadhl3y@lemmy.world 17 points 2 months ago

Strictly speaking, this is a limitation of the default filesystem, and not the core operating system. If you mount a NFS share that is case sensitive, it will still be case sensitive.

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[-] Harold_Penisman@lemmy.world 15 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

What a tragedy. Giving files slightly different names seems far more organized and logical than having several files with the same name and different capitalization. Really seems like a non-issue to me.

EDIT: I will never simp for Windows or Microsoft, I definitely think Linux is better in many ways. But my point still stands about this specific topic.

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[-] Sparky 14 points 2 months ago

Fun things happen whenever you upload 2 files with the same names, but differently capitalized letters to a Nas from a linux box, and then try to delete one of them from windows. It broke so hard I actually got a bsod....

[-] ramble81@lemm.ee 13 points 2 months ago

Case sensitivity is how we get SovCits…..

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this post was submitted on 06 Sep 2024
664 points (100.0% liked)

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