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[-] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 225 points 2 months ago

Hmmm disagree. If someone's politics are violence, and they have a serious path to enacting them, it's self defense. Self defense is generally acceptable.

I don't want to politely walk into a concentration camp because a bunch of people in states I don't even live in voted to exterminate the queers and their friends.

Also anyone who's going to say "Gay marriage is violence against society" is an asshole and wrong. Anyone who says abortion is murder but isn't doing jack fuck to help living humans is not worth listening to. Just to preempt the "well they think the same about you!" nonsense.

[-] CarbonIceDragon@pawb.social 78 points 2 months ago

Here's the thing: Trump's politics do not stop with Trump. Killing him does not kill the fascistic movement he's contributed greatly to, it has a life of it's own, and even had he died today, whoever replaces him would still be peddling the same kinds of things, except they'd now have a martyr to rally Trump's old fanbase around, one that, by virtue of being killed, many people are going to feel reluctant to criticize. As such, I feel that this attack, assuming it was politically motivated (and I figure the odds that someone shoots at Trump for reasons unrelated to his political agenda are quite slim, so it's probably a safe assumption) was a mistake- I fear that it will have helped Trump's agenda more than hurt it, and would have done so even if it was successful in killing him.

Now, Im not saying this to be one of those "violence is never the answer" types, I do recognize that there are situations where the only hope one has to survive an openly hostile political force is overwhelming violence; but it must be recognized that such an effort is extremely risky, it has significant drawbacks even if successful (such as setting a precedent legitimizing political violence, which anyone else may use, or causing collateral damage), and carries a significant risk that when the shooting stops, you'll be on the losing end. As such, it really should be a last resort, and seeing as Trump isn't even president yet, hasn't even been voted in, and doesn't yet have a legislature stacked up to ensure he can actually carry out his agenda, we're not yet at the point where it is the only option left to stop him. Employing it now makes it more likely that we reach that point.

[-] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 62 points 2 months ago

Trump is enough of a cult of personality that I think if he died (either through violence or natural causes), it would limit the effectiveness of the right wing. You are correct that it wouldn't stop the problem. Project2025 wasn't written by just him. There's whole buildings full of assholes.

You may also be correct that this will motivate his fans, and that's a net negative.

Also, I think the genie's out of the bottle on political violence. There was already a coup attempt. If trump loses, I would be extremely surprised if there wasn't violence. If he wins, people will suffer and die through policy. We're not in a good spot.

Unfortunately, I cannot thanos snap away the far right.

[-] grrgyle@slrpnk.net 25 points 2 months ago

Trump did kind of show Republicans that if you lean into your bullshit without flinching that no one will stop you. I think it's hard to pull off for non-narcissists, though.

Remember "grab them by the pussy?" We all thought he was done after that, the media started circling for the inevitable play of contrition, which... never came. He just kept spouting bullshit, and it worked

That and voter suppression and probably foreign interference to destabilise the US

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[-] SleezyDizasta@lemmy.world 19 points 2 months ago

You're probably the type of person who would end up being a shooter if this is your mentality.

This is political violence. Going around trying to assassinate people you don't like is not self defense. Your presumption of violence is NOT a justification of using violence. Two wrongs don't make a right, you're still in the wrong. This mentality that violence is a just mean to achieve political goals is quite literally what terrorism is. This is the exact line of logic that Hamas used to justify the Oct 7th attack against civilians or what the Turks used to justify the Armenian genocide or what Hitler used to justify the Holocaust. You have to be some type of soulless ghoul to think this type of behavior is acceptable in a civil society. The majority of Americans already don't support what Trump spews from liberals to independents to the apolitical to even some conservatives. If you criticize Trump and MAGA of being pro violence then you have to stick by your principles and be anti violence.

Bernie's response is without a doubt the correct one. Not only is condemning the violence morally correct, but it shows that he stand by his principles and his condemnation helps remove fuel from the fire by not encouraging more violence. Bernie is right, be like Bernie.

[-] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 30 points 2 months ago

Cool. Maybe we'll end up being bunk mates in the concentration camp.

I don't know what to tell you. Sometimes politics are violence.

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[-] yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com 29 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Do people think that forcing children to give birth isn’t violence? That having the bank seize your house isn’t violence?

Imagine the privileged delusion that you’re above all that — that you’ve transcended the zombie horde of apocalyptic subhumanity clutching at your ankles, literally trying to rob your children, to poison them, to end all life on earth. The treacherous religious maniacs, the ignoramuses, the money-hungry, fashion-obsessed, sports-car-maniacal narcissists who would eat a puppy alive for a Rolex. That these orc-like creatures aren’t here to torment and torture and pillage.

But sure. Let’s not stoop to their level by struggling too much as they eat us alive.

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[-] Thteven@lemmy.world 180 points 2 months ago

I hope Trump dies from infection, sorry Bernie.

[-] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 63 points 2 months ago

Sadly, I doubt it.

This is going to be the first chapter in a book about several assassination attempts during his reign of terror, at least if it turns out the way I expect it to.

[-] Anticorp@lemmy.world 19 points 2 months ago

They're going to ramp security way up. I wouldn't be surprised if the left finally gets their way with gun bans as a result of this. Right before a fascist takeover.

[-] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 18 points 2 months ago

It could happen.

Historically in the US assassination attempts are pretty much the only thing that moves the needle on gun control.

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[-] ValorieAF@lemmy.world 19 points 2 months ago

Him dying from a shot to the ear or heart palpitations after the adrenaline would be peak humor, and a better outcome than if he was shot in the head.

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[-] TeenieBopper@lemmy.world 115 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Let's not forget, trying to remove access to health care is an act of violence that will cause people to die. Restricting access to women's health alth care is an act of violence that will cause people to die. Outlawing gender affirming care is an act of violence that will cause people to die. Appointing judges to support these policies - and those judges writing opinions enabling those policies as well as opinions restricting environmental regulations - are acts of violence that will cause people to die. Locking migrants in cages is an act of violence that leads to people dying. So why are those acts of violence acceptable but this one is not?

You might say that none of them are acceptable. But let me put it another way. Law enforcement shot and killed the perpetrator of this act of violence and we as a society deem it reasonable and justified. But why shouldn't we do the same thing for this guy?

And the answer is: we should.

[-] Anticorp@lemmy.world 63 points 2 months ago

He killed over a million people during covid.

[-] SOMETHINGSWRONG@lemmy.dbzer0.com 30 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Liberals would rather literally die than admit they are complicit with fascism. As long as there’s some “other” being killed, they won’t give a shit. Whether it’s blacks, immigrants, minorities, LGBT.

They don’t give a shit about you as long as they get their daily Frappuccino.

I hope this is a wake up call for many.

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[-] ByteOnBikes@slrpnk.net 112 points 2 months ago

I remember when a politician's family was nearly killed and this happened.

[-] Tja@programming.dev 44 points 2 months ago

I like presidents who don't get shot.

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[-] JasonDJ@lemmy.zip 65 points 2 months ago

Really wonder what Trump would've said if Bernie got shot. Probably offer a pardon to whoever was involved. Maybe even a Medal of Freedom.

[-] Jumpingspiderman@lemm.ee 31 points 2 months ago

Beside it not being the proper democratic way of deciding how to be governed, the problem with political violence is that it quickly spirals out of control and can burn everything to the ground.

[-] JasonDJ@lemmy.zip 26 points 2 months ago

Oh, I know that. And I'm willing to bet Trump does too. That's why I said what I said.

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[-] MindTraveller@lemmy.ca 56 points 2 months ago

I loved it when America did political violence on German soldiers. Today's shooter is a patriotic hero engaging in America's most noble pastime, shooting Nazis.

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[-] Draedron@lemmy.dbzer0.com 54 points 2 months ago

Americans always claim they have the 2A to prevent fascism but when someone actually tries to protect the democracy he is judged by everyone.

[-] ByteOnBikes@slrpnk.net 26 points 2 months ago

Well actually in this case, the shooter was just hunting pedophiles.

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[-] RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 52 points 2 months ago

And here we have the Paradox Of Tolerance.

The world would be better off without people like Trump in it. I get that we don't want to be like them in espousing violence against people we don't like, but at the same time when you have a person who objectively will make the world a more dangerous and unstable place, along with effecting actual harm against the citizens of his own country, you can only be so tolerant.

[-] grue@lemmy.world 26 points 2 months ago

Tolerance isn't a paradox; it's a social contract. Trump broke that contract on Jan 6 and is no longer protected by it.

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[-] Anticorp@lemmy.world 51 points 2 months ago

His political adversary doesn't think it's unacceptable. He led several thousand people to Congress to lynch the vice president after he lost the election.

[-] Facebones@reddthat.com 48 points 2 months ago

Somebody who only speaks violence will not respond to peaceful methods. I'm not excited by the prospect of violence but we also can't just let ourselves be trampled because of some misguided notion that "Well, they decided on violence, there's nothing we can do because violence back would make us worse 🤷‍♂️"

[-] cows_are_underrated@feddit.org 42 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Ingonna be honest. Trump is a danger to democracy and to the world as a whole. Eliminating him would be a contribution to democracy. However, if you decide to go for him, make sure hes really dead. If he just gets hurt that's a Hufe win for him, because he then can use this attack to deploy a massive anti democratic campaign giving him more Attention.

However, violence should be the lädt option. There are other ways to defeat fascism. Make it possible that the average person can have a good life and don't copy fascists points. In the case of Trump the USA also missed its chance to ban him from the elections.

[-] Commiunism@lemmy.wtf 37 points 2 months ago

The problem with taking down Fascism with violence is that you're just killing the figureheads, not the fascist ideas. Say that the assassination attempt was successful - he'd become a martyr who would strengthen those beliefs in people (they want to take us down because we're right type of deal), and his legacy would be easily continued by thousands of influential conservative politicians/foundation members.

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[-] AFC1886VCC@reddthat.com 41 points 2 months ago

Now let's see who Trump blames for it

[-] Anticorp@lemmy.world 35 points 2 months ago

The violent, radical left, of course.

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[-] ArmokGoB@lemmy.dbzer0.com 37 points 2 months ago

"Political violence is absolutely unacceptable"

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[-] Draegur@lemm.ee 35 points 2 months ago

Sad. The only appropriate response is to tell Trump and his GOP toadies to get over it. This is the situation they created. This is the natural consequence of reactionaries and lax gun control. They shat this bed and they absolutely deserve to drown in it.

[-] LordWiggle@lemmy.world 25 points 2 months ago

The best response is exactly his response. He's better then Trump, so he acts like a better person by not saying stupid shit like Trump does. Although I'm sad the shooter missed, political assassination is always bad, and likely will work in Trump's favor. If Trump would have died, another even more radical replacement would have benefitted from it. There is no positive outcome from a political assassination. Trump will either get more support or become a martyr.

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[-] LucidNightmare@lemm.ee 33 points 2 months ago

Bernie, you’ve always been a better person than I.

Fuck Trump, and I wish the bullet would have cracked his skull open like a piñata.

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[-] ThrowawayPermanente@sh.itjust.works 33 points 2 months ago

Based and society-pilled

[-] DessertStorms 32 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

What a fucking joke.

People love to talk big, but when someone actually takes action against a self declared actively power seeking fascist (I'm not entirely convinced anyone was actually shot today, or that it wasn't a hired sniper doing exactly what they were paid to do - miss), they run back to authority with their tail tucked firmly between their legs.

Fuck this bullshit.

Political violence has actively and continuously been enacted by white supremacist patriarchal capitalists against the working class and marginalised people for centuries. Fighting back in self defence isn't what's unacceptable.

Lets say he was shot, the only problem anyone claiming to be an antifascist should have with it, is that the shooter missed.

When people tell you who they are, no matter how "lovable", you better listen.

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[-] SleezyDizasta@lemmy.world 27 points 2 months ago

Even though I disagree with Bernie on a lot, he is a class act. This is absolutely the correct response. It shows that he has moral integrity and stands by his principles

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[-] WereHacker@lemmy.ml 24 points 2 months ago

If politicians decides politically to use the military for violence against anyone or anything, is that political violence? And if yes, does that means there is legal political violence?

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[-] LordCrom@lemmy.world 21 points 2 months ago

This is the correct response.

[-] thirstyhyena@lemmy.world 27 points 2 months ago

The politically correct response.

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[-] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 19 points 2 months ago

It's the brick throwers that get things done, not the peaceful protesters simulating homelessness.

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[-] SuddenDownpour@sh.itjust.works 18 points 2 months ago

Regardless of your personal opinions, there was pretty much nothing else Bernie was going to say, other than perhaps nothing.

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this post was submitted on 13 Jul 2024
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