558
(page 2) 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[-] instantnudeln@discuss.tchncs.de 15 points 1 year ago

I'm not from the USA. We have many Parties here, so maybe I'm out of touch a little.

But is it really that bad to vote some small 3rd Party? I think it's a big problem for Democracy if you only look on the two big parties. Yes it's completely unrealistic that a 3rd party gets enough votes to be the Government, but why be part of this Problem? And isn't a Vote for some small party STILL better than a vote for Trumps Party? Where is the difference to that my 0,001% goes to the Democratic Party or a smaller party? It's still 0,001% less for Trump.

Also, I just checked this Wikipedia Article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_the_United_States And based on this list, some small parties actually have some seats and even have some mayors somewhere. So it seems like the vote is not 100% wasted.

Isn't it better for Democracy to look on ALL parties?

The Party in Germany I'm a member of sadly lost their Seat in the European Parliament this election, but this will not be a reason to just give up. Even with only one single seat, the party actually did much Important work. So I will not move to a bigger party now. I will talk to many people and advertise my party and try to get us back on a seat next time.

Like I said, maybe I'm missing something in USA Politics. I don't know much about your system. Could someone explain to me why it's such a hated move to vote a 3rd Party in the USA? From my European viewpoint, I don't see why not. I'm here to understand.

[-] KazuyaDarklight@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

At scale the US system has too many layers of abstraction. We are not a direct democracy once you pass the small scale elections you mentioned. Those abstractions combined with first around the goalpost winning makes it so statistically the chance of third party success rounds to 0. So if you vote 3rd party in a major election when you otherwise would have voted Biden then you helped Trump because that 3rd party vote's only impact on the election was to reduce Biden's total by 1.

The only chance 3rd party has of gaining ground is if we switched to ranked choice voting as this would allow people to realistically gauge and react to support for 3rd parties without aiding the major party they dislike in the meantime.

Also need to ditch the Electoral College as it is the worst of our voting abstractions that is only amplified by gerrymandering.

[-] instantnudeln@discuss.tchncs.de 9 points 1 year ago

The way you put it, I would hardly even call it a democracy. Or let me rephrase that. It's a democracy but a really broken one.

So the system would have to be fixed. And of course that won't happen because it would damage the parties that would need to fix it. Yea... really complicated.

But at least locally, it should be fine to vote for 3rd parties. I see many seats there. You should try to get the choice in the places you can. (as long as the small parties aren't even worse, of course)

load more comments (3 replies)
[-] PugJesus@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago

And based on this list, some small parties actually have some seats and even have some mayors somewhere. So it seems like the vote is not 100% wasted.

On the national level, it's wasted. Essentially, the system used in the USA is called First Past The Post - the majority (or plurality) winner of the vote gets the office. No proportional representation. That means when there are two parties which are near clinching a majority (as in almost all national races here in the US), votes for a third party are wasted.

load more comments (5 replies)
[-] LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net 9 points 1 year ago

You are not wrong, but missing essential context. The American electoral system more or less ensures there can never be more than 2 competitive parties in any given election.

In some cases where republicans are not competitive, voting third party may be a reasonable strategy, but this is usually only the case in local races in very partisan districts.

If you want multiparty democracy (which I agree would be an improvement), it’s far more important to advocate for electoral reforms that would allow such a thing than to actually vote for third parties. To do so actually gives up your influence and can be an act of self-sabotage, even if your goal is to support third parties.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (8 replies)
[-] VictoriaAScharleau@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago

calling leftists fascists is the height of political illiteracy.

[-] PugJesus@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

Political illiteracy accusations from someone who thinks that Trump didn't try to stage an autocoup? Bold move.

load more comments (9 replies)
[-] umbrella@lemmy.ml 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

fascist* coalitions. nothing antifa about it.

load more comments (2 replies)
[-] rickdg@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

Nowadays voting is only step 1

[-] PugJesus@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago

Well, that's always been the case. But it is still an important step when there are only two candidates on the ballot, and one will severely damage left causes.

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] Beaver@lemmy.ca 9 points 1 year ago

I love this meme

load more comments
view more: ‹ prev next ›
this post was submitted on 12 Jun 2024
558 points (100.0% liked)

Political Memes

9599 readers
2118 users here now

Welcome to politcal memes!

These are our rules:

Be civilJokes are okay, but don’t intentionally harass or disturb any member of our community. Sexism, racism and bigotry are not allowed. Good faith argumentation only. No posts discouraging people to vote or shaming people for voting.

No misinformationDon’t post any intentional misinformation. When asked by mods, provide sources for any claims you make.

Posts should be memesRandom pictures do not qualify as memes. Relevance to politics is required.

No bots, spam or self-promotionFollow instance rules, ask for your bot to be allowed on this community.

No AI generated content.Content posted must not be created by AI with the intent to mimic the style of existing images

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS