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[-] 3volver@lemmy.world 65 points 3 months ago

Simple solutions. Term limits, ranked choice voting, delete the electoral college.

[-] Wogi@lemmy.world 15 points 3 months ago

The problem is that while people disapprove of Congress as a whole they tend to like their own representatives.

Gerrymandering is a bigger problem in Congress.

[-] Princeali311@lemm.ee 7 points 3 months ago
[-] 3volver@lemmy.world 14 points 3 months ago

Yes, simple. Easy to explain to the average person, easy to implement. Now, as for our overlords with all the money allowing it? Complicated.

[-] Liz@midwest.social 1 points 3 months ago

RCV is completed enough that it's causing disenfranchisement problems with poor and low education voters. Better to go with approval voting, which gets the same results while making invalid ballots impossible.

The way we make that happen is by starting with local referendums and working our way up. It's a lot of work, but it's the main way good stuff happens in our democracy.

[-] Lemming6969@lemmy.world 2 points 3 months ago

That abstract describes disenfranchisement due to overvote, which is choosing more candidates than allowed. If these fucking morons cannot follow directions, they likely are too stupid to be trusted to vote. I'd rather that type of self culling than the current methods.

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[-] ytg@sopuli.xyz 5 points 3 months ago

Ranked-choice means nothing if you have single-member districts, other than maybe allowing some third parties to get in. You can still gerrymander and stuff.

What you really want is multi-member districts or just nationwide PR, but that is anything but simple…

[-] Liz@midwest.social 2 points 3 months ago

Yeah, 96% of RCV elections in the US elect the first round winner anyway. In part because proportional representation is the ultimate goal, I think Approval Voting is a better first step towards fixing our elections. You can very easily adapt it to proportional methods in ways that the voter can actually understand. Fargo and St. Louis use it for their normal elections and it's caused majority winners to go way up. It elected the first black woman to mayor for St. Louis, so that's pretty neat.

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[-] doggle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 3 months ago

While I agree with these, removing the electoral college wouldn't have a direct impact on congress, right?

[-] 3volver@lemmy.world 10 points 3 months ago

It would have an indirect impact by not allowing an orange fuck by winning without the popular vote.

[-] Webster@lemmy.world 7 points 3 months ago

It could change the VP (tie breaking vote in Senate)

[-] Korne127@lemmy.world 3 points 3 months ago

Majority voting system is the main problem. Electoral college is the version for presidential elections, but it needs to be changed to a proportionate voting system for congress as well.
As the US is very state-based, you could do a version like Germany where you vote for a local candidate as well but the proportion of the congress equals the whole proportion of votes.

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[-] Stern@lemmy.world 64 points 3 months ago

"my guy is great but the rest of those crooks..."

[-] kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world 27 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

"my crook is great but the rest of these crooks..."

FTFY.

Plenty of voters KNOW their representatives are crooks. But they're crooks on the "right side", so they're cool. They're using their crookedness to push law through ethically void means that often border on legality, which is fine so long as they're usually pushing their constituents agenda in doing so OR simply fucking over the other side. Those people voting for Jewish Space Lasers Marj and Child Sex Trafficking Gaetz know exactly who those people are, as do every single Twice-Impeached, Convicted Felon Trump voter. It's not an awareness issue.

[-] Tinidril@midwest.social 17 points 3 months ago

Another factor is the idea that all politicians are crooks, making perceived crookedness seem irrelevant. This becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

[-] kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world 4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Politics in general is a self fulfilling prophesy. Genuine, honest people who stand for something and want to make a positive change through integrity and compromise do not typically last long in politics. Those who are ruthless have the advantage and those who are not either need to recognize, defy and outnumber the ruthless, or else fall to their level, or fail to see the change they're fighting for. The job just incentivizes being a lying asshole.

[-] ceenote@lemmy.world 3 points 3 months ago

Also that almost every election is a choice between a crook who'll implement the policies you want, and a crook who won't.

[-] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 45 points 3 months ago
[-] Siegfried@lemmy.world 22 points 3 months ago

What are you proposing? A revolution?

[-] demizerone@lemmy.world 13 points 3 months ago

"No just vote! but vote for a Democrat of course..." ~ average neoliberal

[-] Phegan@lemmy.world 7 points 3 months ago
[-] assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world 6 points 3 months ago

How far did you read about the French Revolution before you closed the book? Because it certainly seems like you read the part about overthrowing the rich and then stopped reading about what happened next.

[-] KevonLooney@lemm.ee 11 points 3 months ago

Let's be honest: nobody actually reads history. If they did they would know that the citizens of Paris eventually burned the guillotine because it had killed so many people.

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[-] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 6 points 3 months ago

Yes. Voting for the ones the duopoly and their rich owner donors let people vote for clearly isn't working.

[-] Everythingispenguins@lemmy.world 3 points 3 months ago

No, just to make sure the little bubble on the ballot is really well colored in.

[-] g0d0fm15ch13f@lemmy.world 40 points 3 months ago
[-] BakerBagel@midwest.social 24 points 3 months ago

He probably should have advocated for a system that wouldn't reault in this bullshit then. Federalists vs Democrat-Republicans became the de-facto state of US politics immediately after ratification of the constitution. You don't get to complain about your dog shitting on the carpet if you never let it out.

[-] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 8 points 3 months ago

He didn't write the constitution alone and subsequent Congresses and presidential administrations had over a century to heed his warnings before the duopoly became unassailable.

Hell, as late as 1912, Teddy Roosevelt had a realistic chance of winning back the presidency as the head of a more progressive party (the aptly named Progressive Party, better known as the Bull Moose Party) that he founded the summer of that year!

[-] BakerBagel@midwest.social 8 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Trump has as good a chance of running as a third party candidate as Teddy had. The duopoly has been in place since the 1850s, 60 years agter the constitution was written and ratified. You cant rant and rave about parties all you want, but they are inevitable with our current system.

[-] Furbag@lemmy.world 5 points 3 months ago

Trump did run as third party. Several times. He dropped out every time without winning any delegates. 2016 was not his first rodeo, just the first one he finally convinced the RNC to nominate him.

There's a reason you want to be under one of the big tent parties. They get more funding to campaign and they get party hardliners basically for free. Adolf Hitler could run as a Republican and you'd still see lifelong Republicans turn out to vote (R) down ballot regardless.

[-] ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works 35 points 3 months ago
[-] Zehzin@lemmy.world 21 points 3 months ago

So US citizens have no say in picking the legislative, the judiciary and the executive branches.

How's it the democratic beacon of freedom again?

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[-] derf82@lemmy.world 28 points 3 months ago

Your congressperson secures an earmark for a local project: "How wonderful, they are working hard to bring back dollars to our community!"

Everyone else's congressperson secures an earmark for their district: "We need to stop these awful porkbarrel projects! What a waste of money!"

[-] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 3 points 3 months ago

This is why I think we should bring back anonymous voting for Congress. We have anonymous voting for civilians, but anyone can buy or threaten a Congressman into voting. Also, since we'd be judging Congress as a whole instead of as individuals they'll be a lot more likely to at least appear to do a good job because even good and loyal Congress critters could lose reelection if people hated Congress.

I realize this is an unpopular opinion because "How do we know they're doing their job." Well, their job is to work with their classmates to do a good job for everyone, not just to earmark pork and get stock tips.

[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 12 points 3 months ago

bring back anonymous voting for Congress

Constituent: "You said you'd vote to close Gitmo"

Politician: "I did."

Constituent: "The vote failed 437-1"

Politician: "That one vote was mine"

Constituent: "All 438 of you said that!"

[-] vonbaronhans@midwest.social 2 points 3 months ago

I read a pretty persuasive article a while back that was pro anonymous voting in Congress. I can't find it right now, but the most persuasive arguments I remember were:

  • Yes, politicians can lie about their votes, but it's not always a bad thing. For example, some congresspeople were able to vote for anti-segregation bills or other sensible legislation despite their racist, hyper conservative voter base.
  • The population can't guarantee that their representative voted the way they say they did, which means if life starts getting bad for the population, by whatever metric, their inability to definitively trust their representative makes it easier to swap out candidates.

There was more to it, but that's all I can remember right now. Of course, I now realize I could probably test those assertions with a little historical data digging. Doubt I'll get around to that anytime soon though.

[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 2 points 3 months ago

Part of the problem with contrarian takes is that they spend a lot of time telling you not to believe your lying eyes.

Politicians already have methods for "anonymous" voting. We get to see it in the Dem Senate regularly, whenever there's a vote for closure. One Senate in a safe seat saying no can shield 59 others who didn't really want the bill to pass.

It doesn't improve the process. On the contrary, it makes the system that much more corrupt. A handful of Liebermans, Sinemas, and Machins can extort favors from the rest of the body politic to play fall guy.

Meanwhile, money doesn't flow towards individual candidates, but political action committes which sponsor ideology. Politicians are rewarded for bills failing, regardless of which particular vote was the deciding one.

Whether politicians are lying isn't the issue. It's where popular legislation is passing. Anonymity does nothing to incentivize politicians to pass popular legislation.

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[-] partial_accumen@lemmy.world 18 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

I can't speak for others, but Gerrymandering makes my reps some of the worst in the House.

[-] doingthestuff@lemmy.world 4 points 3 months ago

First past the post elections make reps the worst in the world. Both parties agree on one thing maintain power.

[-] partial_accumen@lemmy.world 4 points 3 months ago

Gerrymandering is one place where I don't think would be fixed with a "Ranked choice" voting method vs FPTP. If the authors of maps draw districts with a moderate majority leaning one way, the general ideology will still be represented in the final vote.

[-] DSTGU@sopuli.xyz 15 points 3 months ago

When approval couldn't be lower, yet reelection rates couldn't be higher you'll know you've succeded

CGP Grey - Rules for Rulers

[-] crusa187@lemmy.ml 15 points 3 months ago

The case for getting rid of first past the post. Ranked choice, star voting, take your pick but we can and should do better, for democracy.

[-] fuzzyspudkiss@midwest.social 13 points 3 months ago

As they say around Indiana - "Oh yeah they're terrible, but at least they're not a Dem" and then refuse to elaborate.

[-] erp@lemmy.world 7 points 3 months ago
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this post was submitted on 31 May 2024
573 points (100.0% liked)

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