270
submitted 7 months ago by btaf45@lemmy.world to c/politics@lemmy.world
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[-] bolexforsoup 127 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)
[-] reddig33@lemmy.world 46 points 7 months ago

You can probably drop the “lol” part.

[-] bolexforsoup 84 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)
[-] Kadaj21@lemmy.world 27 points 7 months ago

I’m a millennial, i do it all the time lol

[-] bolexforsoup 11 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)
[-] Bob_Robertson_IX@lemmy.world 8 points 7 months ago

I thought "lol" was short for "Just wanted to let you know that I'm a millennial so you can better understand where I'm coming from with this comment."

Does it have a different meaning?

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[-] anticolonialist@lemmy.world 26 points 7 months ago

Project 2025 is the culmination of 50 years 'lesser evil' voting. Instead of accepting no evil, democrats tolerated right wing politics and its policies as long as it had a D next to its name.

Marginalized communities have been living with versions of P2025 all their lives. This only scares white liberals because its something that finally targets them. Democrats demanded we ignore our oppressors and vote for them and didnt have our backs. Now we wont have theirs for the mess liberals created.

[-] Psychodelic@lemmy.world 8 points 7 months ago

You had me in the middle bit

[-] bolexforsoup 5 points 7 months ago
[-] 4grams@awful.systems 5 points 7 months ago

I can’t argue with any of that. What I’m stuck on is just what the fuck to do now and what comes next.

Can you elaborate on your thoughts? I honestly can’t see a way out except for eating another shit sandwich and hoping that incrementalism can save us once sanity returns. But fuck, we’re cooked, sanity is gone for good so I’m out of ideas and the alternative only makes it worse for everyone. I’m at a point where I’m happy to vote against my best interests but that’s kinda what I feel I’ve been doing all this time.

[-] anticolonialist@lemmy.world 8 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Incrementalism is what got us here. We were led to believe that incremental baby steps is what was necessary for progress. They use those incremental baby steps as small, little, minute, undetectable steps to the right. They compartmentalized the rightward shift so all we saw were small puzzle pieces and couldn't piece them together to show the larger overall picture. And when people started to challenge their views, they would throw the marginalized communities in front of them to defend their actions, ' you challenging our systems might hurt this black person, it might throw this lgbtq+ person under the bus,' etc. and I use that tactic to silence opposition. It's the same tactic that Republicans use when they scream 'save the children'

If incrementalism actually worked, we wouldn't be having the same discussions about wages and housing and healthcare and education that we were having 50 60 70 years ago.

Regarding P2025 we are at the

Then they came for me And there was no one left To speak out for me

Martin Niemöller's poem First They Came

[-] 4grams@awful.systems 8 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

So right, I get all that, but I’m not terribly interested in retribution for what got us here, I’m interested in tangible ways to go forward. I think all our choices are shit right now so what, just don’t vote so that I can sniff my own farts for being above it all?

I’m at the point where I agree…ish. I do believe that there is a lot of deliberate actions by the power structure of both parties but I see some actual humanity and thought coming from one side, pure spite and malice from the other and complete and utter insanity from the comedy option. Problem is the humanity in the party has gotten nothing done (not for their lack of trying) and has no control so I am have officially given up on them.

So I’m left with zero options. Great fucking country we have here that I’m utterly trapped within.

[-] archomrade@midwest.social 6 points 7 months ago

I think it would help to imagine this as if we've already arrived at the peak of fascism - what would you be doing then? Likely mutual aid, political (probably undergroud) organizing, civil disobedience, ect. This is what they mean when anarchists say 'you can't vote fascism away', and this is what leftists mean when they say voting in this election doesn't really address the crisis.

The hard work of resisting fascism happens everywhere but the ballot box.

[-] Bernie_Sandals@lemmy.world 5 points 7 months ago

The hard work of resisting fascism happens everywhere but the ballot box.

You realize that doing all of that hard work would be much harder under Trump than Biden right?

Even if you're the most communist person ever, it makes sense to vote for Biden, he atleast tolerates your existence, and that'll make all praxis easier than under Mr. "Root out the communist vermin" Trump

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[-] FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 29 points 7 months ago

Caught a sound bite of trump rambling again.

Did Hitler sound that dumb in his rallies?

[-] distantsounds@lemmy.world 43 points 7 months ago

Hitler didn’t make it to 80. It’d be nice if trump took that note

[-] FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 20 points 7 months ago

As evil as Hitler was... he did at least one good thing for the world.

So far, I'm not so sure Trump has done that much.

(Hitler offed himself.)

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[-] takeda@lemmy.world 24 points 7 months ago

He was also largely dismissed as a clown, like trump in 2016, that there was no way he would win.

[-] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 7 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Hitler was described as a charismatic and compelling speaker. That’s historically how he was able to capture so much of the German audience. Only once he had a strong following did he begin attacking the BBC as “Lügenpresse” (fake news), isolating Germans from trusting in international media.

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[-] AshMan85@lemmy.world 24 points 7 months ago
[-] Drusas@kbin.run 21 points 7 months ago

That is downplaying the threat.

[-] Land_Strider@lemmy.world 6 points 7 months ago

Not even closely. It has arrived, butchered all your neighbors one by one, now it is at the doors of those living in American Dream houses. You were just just chilling in your garden and paying taxes to the machine that was axing all the marginalized groups one by one, until this year when they are finally narrowing the "orthodox" line to leave the white liberal on the marginalized side. Enjoy the last vestige of comfort Biden tries to push for the U.S. citizen while straining your conscious with the suffering elsewhere, as was the accepted American liberal lifestyle for a quarter short of a century now.

As for the Europeans, don't be lazy or be apathetic and vote while you still have good candidates. Most of you have abysmal vote percentages because so far your governments kept your individualistic lifestyles untouched. Don't assume you can keep the peaking fascism tide via shifting Overton Window at bay without showing an almost identical solidarity the right wing shows at every continent on earth. The "Russian propaganda, blackmail, bribery, etc." is only the beginning. Iran had experienced the same meddling by the U.S. decades ago, the whole Middle East and North Africa have been experiencing it since early 2000 at least. Turkey started going down the same path with Menderes and American influence during the cold war in the 60's, and not even half a century later we have Erdoğan and even worse shariah-law touting coalition parties with him propping up now.

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[-] anticolonialist@lemmy.world 12 points 7 months ago

Has been for decades

[-] reddig33@lemmy.world 12 points 7 months ago

Brilliant photo illustration.

[-] masquenox@lemmy.world 9 points 7 months ago

I hate to break it to all the libs - but the US is already (and has been in the past) about as fascist as it can get. You want to see institutionalized (and perfectly normalized) fascism for yourself? Just look for your nearest cop - you won't have to look long.

Liberals have always signed on to US fascism - as long as it wasn't aimed at them, libs were fine with the imperialism and class repression (all the things you can't do without fascists) long before Trump was even born.

Trump is not a fascist - he's merely cosplaying as one. Trump knows he couldn't drain the swamp even if he wanted to - the swamp made him. This is not good news - the swamp (ie, the US political establishment) has always nurtured and maintained fascism to keep the people at the bottom from threatening the people at the top. US fascism is nothing new. - this call was always coming from inside the house.

[-] flying_sheep@lemmy.ml 24 points 7 months ago

You obviously have no idea how bad it can get.

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[-] Snapz@lemmy.world 4 points 7 months ago

This is you, discouraging the basic practice of voting and then cowering away when you're called out.

You're a troll, obsessed with (and speaking as if you understand) the nuance of the US while you're all the way in South Africa. You have nothing to say and you're universally disliked.

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[-] Dreizehn@kbin.social 8 points 7 months ago

Every single Allied WWII would roll in their grave and the f'n Little Austrian Corporal would be f'n proud of the f'n MAGATs.

[-] NewNewAccount@lemmy.world 8 points 7 months ago

You’re allowed to use curse words here.

[-] maynarkh@feddit.nl 5 points 7 months ago
[-] Eol@sh.itjust.works 7 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Open thoughts... But I feel like it's dumb to equate every "fascist" to Hitler and use Hitler and WW2 imagery. I feel like it dumbs things down.

If you believe Trump or whoever is a fascist their actions and their own image is enough. People aren't going to think differently because X is portrayed as Hitler. It seems like gimmicky propaganda to do that. Anyone you would ever want on "your side" would understand this. As result people disregard both "sides". Do you want people to switch to your side because of social political marketing or because they are actually cognitive enough to have a real understanding of life and reality? Imo it seems like a way to get useless people to join your side out of emotion. In turn dumbing down your side to emotionally reactive people. Marketing doesn't get you a base that cares, it gets you a following.

I suppose that's fine in war if you want cannon fodder to use... But that also sounds like something an anti fascist wouldn't want.

In modern politics it's like it's an art to build the biggest base of useless people to abuse for cannon fodder.

[-] Eldritch@lemmy.world 23 points 7 months ago

The father of the concept you're talking about. Has come out to say the trump comparisons are apt and not uncalled for.

While we shouldn't imply that every little chucklefuck is literally Hitler. Or that every group of fascist are literal Nazis. It would be more disrespectful to not learn the lessons of history. And wait till someone is on the verge of challenging the score. Republicans and trump have had their bonifides verified.

[-] EmpathicVagrant@lemmy.world 23 points 7 months ago

The RNC had a stage shaped like a Nazi pin and put up on an electric sign ‘we are all domestic terrorists’ but okay.

[-] sxan@midwest.social 13 points 7 months ago

You are right, but many Americans probably wouldn't get it if you used Stalin. For better or worse, Hitler is the face of fascism; Stalin the face of communism. They were both fascists, as were Mussolini, and Stalin.

It's just short-hand imagery; everybody knows what you mean. Pinochet was a fascist dictator, but he was also a brutal sociopath, so he's confusing, even if people recognized him.

[-] Dreizehn@kbin.social 13 points 7 months ago

Please add Spain's dictator, Francisco Franco. That bastard allowed Mussolini and Hitler to test their military during Spanish Civil War.

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[-] aodhsishaj@lemmy.world 10 points 7 months ago

Stalin was a totalitarian not a fascist. You can have authoritarian regimes without fascism. Stalin actively fought fascists, was the main reason we won D-Day. He was also a brutal vicious cruel man who ruled his inner circle through fear and paranoia.

[-] sxan@midwest.social 5 points 7 months ago

fascism

  1. A political theory advocating an authoritarian hierarchical government (as opposed to democracy or liberalism)
  2. Extreme right-wing, authoritarian, intolerant, racist or nationalistic views or behavior

How do neither of these apply to Stalin? Note the "or" in the second definition. The "Nazi" party was the "National Socialist" party. You have to look at the actions, not just the labels, right? Stalin was authoritarian, intolerant, and nationalistic. He created an authoritarian hierarchical government.

Stalin fits both definitions of Fascism. It doesn't matter that he was at war with other fascists; monarchies had for millennia fought other monarchies - it didn't make them not-monarchies.

[-] aodhsishaj@lemmy.world 7 points 7 months ago

Because Stalin was a Soviet Dictator. Fascism had a direct capitalist economic component that you're completely ignoring.

This might be of interest for your further research

https://www.britannica.com/topic/totalitarianism

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin

And also

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation and/or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.[2][3]

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[-] anticolonialist@lemmy.world 7 points 7 months ago

Fascism is strictly a right wing ideology

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[-] Suavevillain@lemmy.world 6 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Fascism has always been a feature of America and part of this country's core. The Trump admin is a real threat. It doesn't help the Dems fighting against fascist are perfectly fine with standing by and working with fascists with bipartisan efforts that only go in the right-wing direction.

[-] blazeknave@lemmy.world 11 points 7 months ago

No. Not same sides. Don't. The problem is the fascists. Not the naivete of civil servants trying to fund the VA and Medicare.

[-] Suavevillain@lemmy.world 4 points 7 months ago

If you stand beside fascists and are fine with state violence and genocide, you aren't some type of pillar of democracy. The reason the GOP is so strong no matter what they do, Dems will still address them as their friends and colleagues. While the GOP fights dirty and stays committed to long term goals in lock step.

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[-] anticolonialist@lemmy.world 5 points 7 months ago
[-] jabeez@kbin.social 20 points 7 months ago

Both sides!

[-] RecursiveParadox@lemmy.world 5 points 7 months ago

Anyone have a non-Paywall link?

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this post was submitted on 17 May 2024
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