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submitted 4 months ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world

A recent study published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences reveals that across all political and social groups in the United States, there is a strong preference against living near AR-15 rifle owners and neighbors who store guns outside of locked safes. This surprising consensus suggests that when it comes to immediate living environments, Americans’ views on gun control may be less divided than the polarized national debate suggests.

The research was conducted against a backdrop of increasing gun violence and polarization on gun policy in the United States. The United States has over 350 million civilian firearms and gun-related incidents, including accidents and mass shootings, have become a leading cause of death in the country. Despite political divides, the new study aimed to explore whether there’s common ground among Americans in their immediate living environments, focusing on neighborhood preferences related to gun ownership and storage.

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[-] Omgboom@lemmy.zip 102 points 4 months ago

This is why I use the AR-10, it's much safer, it's 5 AR's fewer than the AR-15

[-] ForgotAboutDre@lemmy.world 27 points 4 months ago

The bigger bullet means it's easier to avoid.

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[-] Atelopus-zeteki@kbin.run 12 points 4 months ago

So a good bit cheaper, too, then?

[-] Dkarma@lemmy.world 18 points 4 months ago
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[-] catloaf@lemm.ee 92 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

the gun ownership attribute had three levels: no gun ownership, owning a pistol, and owning an AR-15,

This study design is bad, and they should feel bad. If they're going to claim that people are afraid of AR-15s, they should compare it apples-to-apples with other rifles, or just ask about rifles generally, like they did with pistols.

Furthermore, any study asking opinion questions for what should be data-driven decisions are misleading at best and harmful at worst. If your concern is safety in communities, you should study actual safety, not feelings. It appears they want to make people feel safe, while not necessarily increasing safety.

[-] bolexforsoup 29 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)
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[-] dogslayeggs@lemmy.world 13 points 4 months ago

Yes, people want to feel safe. Emotional health is an important part of quality of life.

And this isn't a data-driven decision. This is a study on how people feel about an issue. Nobody is making a decision based on this, outside of politicians understanding the best way to speak in public when campaigning. Why are you so upset that someone studies how people feel? Yes, the study could have been more in-depth and asked about different types of rifles, but then someone would complain that they didn't include X gun or Y rifle, or they would complain that they lumped all rifles together, or complain about the lumping of "assault rifles," or complain that shotguns aren't included.

It's like turning right on red. It has been proven to be safer by tons of data-driven studies. But people fucking hate it when you are used to being able to turn and go about your drive when there is no traffic around.

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[-] jordanlund@lemmy.world 83 points 4 months ago

I'd be more concerned about a neighbor wearing a MAGA hat and flying a Trump 2024 flag than someone quietly owning an AR-15.

But that's because I'm aware of the statistics.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/476409/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-weapon-types-used/

"Handguns are the most common weapon type used in mass shootings in the United States, with a total of 166 different handguns being used in 116 incidents between 1982 and December 2023. These figures are calculated from a total of 149 reported cases over this period, meaning handguns are involved in about 78 percent of mass shootings."

[-] barsquid@lemmy.world 23 points 4 months ago

If they have a MAGA hat and flag you have to be careful about approaching their driveway or front door. They are fear-addicted and armed.

[-] SnotFlickerman 12 points 4 months ago

Thanks for backing up my position with the actual statistics. I'm aware of them too but I was too lazy to dig them up. Thanks.

People should be way more concerned about handguns but mass shootings with rifles get all the attention.

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[-] Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world 67 points 4 months ago

As a matter of fact, most progressive policies have majority support in the US. The system is deliberately designed to prevent the will of the majority from being enacted.

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[-] dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world 59 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

The aversion to AR-15 owners was stronger than the aversion to owners of other types of firearms (pistols). When given a choice, the probability that a respondent would prefer to live near someone who owned an AR-15 plummeted by over 20 percentage points, indicating a strong societal preference against this type of gun ownership.

Which, as usual, goes a long way towards illustrating how effective propaganda and manipulation of people's opinions can be. Not just on this specific topic either, but in this case I guess that's what we're talking about. Despite its scientific dressings, what this study is exploring isn't actually any mechanical factor, it is measuring people's perceptions which are not guaranteed to be reflected by reality. (And again, this is true of many other topics as well...)

The AR-15 platform does the same damn thing and shoots the same damn bullet in the same damn way as numerous other firearms, and yet just the name itself has a bad rap from being incessantly repeated in the news and social media.

Here's this old chestnut. It's still true.

Why's the one on top "scarier?"

Tl;dr: Own, store, and handle your gun responsibly. Don't be a paranoid loon. Don't believe in whatever boogeyman Fox News is pushing this week. Don't hyperventilate about fictional distinctions.

[-] mosiacmango@lemm.ee 40 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Your image is confusing. How does a the rifle with no magazine have the same capacity to rapid fire as the one above it? The Ar-15 appears to have more bullets immediately available, which would mean it would fire them faster.

How is having a pistol grip that improves comfort and hip firing not make the weapon easier and more comfortable to use?

How is being less visible at night not make a black gun more dangerous than one with a bright wooden sheen?

Do both guns have the same exact default trigger pull, or is the ar-15's lighter and easier to fire?

These guns are different enough in actual use to make one more dangerous than the other. They both can kill you dead, but one literally is designed specifically to be deadiler in several ways. It's one of the reasons mass murders keep using it specifically to mas murder people.

Why is it surprising that it's considered deadiler?

[-] Jondar@lemmy.world 25 points 4 months ago

This picture is often used to draw out all the points you've made, to demonstrate that many people are unfamiliar with many firearms. The Mini-14 in this picture is one available configuration of the rifle. The most basic, simple, low capacity version. However, the Mini-14 is fully capable of using 20 and 30 round magazines, a pistol grip, suppressor, bayonet, and even a folding stock (which the AR-15 can't do).

A better version of this picture uses two models of the Mini-14, illustrating how one is legal in California and the other isn't, even though they're functionally the same rifle. A firearm simply being black does not make it more dangerous. A pistol grip does not make it more dangerous or easier to hip fire for that matter. Any gun is easily hip fired, and I would suggest a non pistol grip rifle or shot gun is more ergonomic to fire from the hip as far as pulling the trigger is concerned.

The real argument should be whether semi auto rifles are more dangerous or not, not if specific semi auto rifles are more dangerous.

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[-] SkyezOpen@lemmy.world 19 points 4 months ago

How is being less visible at night not make a black gun more dangerous than one with a bright wooden sheen?

You're right. We should regulate black paint just in case someone decides to turn their legitimate wooden rifle into a war machine.

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[-] Frog-Brawler@kbin.social 13 points 4 months ago

Your image is confusing. How does a the rifle with no magazine have the same capacity to rapid fire as the one above it? The Ar-15 appears to have more bullets immediately available, which would mean it would fire them faster.

The magazine isn't in the second picture but it has one. Looks like a Ruger 5816 to me, so if you want to see what it looks like with the magazine in it, check out their webpage. Funny enough, it looks like a 10 round mag in the AR, and the 5816 comes with a 20.

How is having a pistol grip that improves comfort and hip firing not make the weapon easier and more comfortable to use?

You're talking about personal preferences here. I tend to find them both pretty comfortable, but you really want to keep the stock at your shoulder.

How is being less visible at night not make a black gun more dangerous than one with a bright wooden sheen?

One of them is black metal, the other one is wood. Either could be painted if you wanted to I suppose, but if we're talking about night-time scenarios, using a light would make either relatively visible.

Do both guns have the same exact default trigger pull, or is the ar-15’s lighter and easier to fire?

You could probably answer these questions in less time than it took you to write them out by looking them up. The 5816 has a pull of 13.50" the base model ruger AR (8500) is 10.25" - 13.50".

These guns are different enough in actual use to make one more dangerous than the other. They both can kill you dead, but one literally is designed specifically to be deadiler in several ways. It’s one of the reasons mass murders keep using it specifically to mas murder people.

Clearly this is bullshit.

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[-] IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world 13 points 4 months ago

Agreed, that image is misleading.

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[-] wjrii@lemmy.world 38 points 4 months ago

Partly because the AR-15 is lighter than the Mini 14, is easier to reload, and is generally designed to meet the modern needs of armies killin' humans better. Then there's the incessant marketing, the huge number of manufacturers at multiple price points (the Mini 14 being a Ruger exclusive), the aftermarket of optics and tacticool accessories, and the general cultural impact. How many Mini 14s have actually been involved in mass shootings and gun-nerd intimidation exercises? It's almost like the least stable assholes are interested in a "badass" gun.

But okay, fine. There's a not-insignificant amount of truth to the graphic. By all means, the gun nerds should put it everywhere and inform the previously ignorant public. I don't think the result will be to convince people the AR-15 is actually useful, just that the Mini-14 is equally unnecessary as a civilian tool or hunting rifle, and they shouldn't assume a wooden-stock rifle is inherently less dangerous than a plastic one.

And, for the record, I am tediously, annoyingly aware of current second-amendment jurisprudence and the lack of sufficient political will to change the constitution, and while I don't think the former is well considered, the situation is what it is. It just sucks. It leaves America unique among stable democracies in having gun violence anywhere near the top of the list of causes of death.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 16 points 4 months ago

By all means, the gun nerds should put it everywhere and inform the previously ignorant public.

The problem is how rude so many of them are about it.

Instead of "there is no such thing as an 'assault rifle' and here's how that myth got started," it's "define assault rifle." It's this weird assumption that everyone knows as much about guns as they do and it really doesn't help them. I get that it can be a knee-jerk reaction to people who have issues with guns (as is assuming anyone who has issues with guns wants a blanket ban on them), but it really does not help.

[-] Tayb@lemmy.world 14 points 4 months ago

Not to go off on a tangent, but it's "assault weapon" that's the boogeyman term, meant to confuse the uninformed with assault rifles. Assault rifles are select fire, full auto and burst fire capable rifles. Assault weapons are semi-automatic rifles that have the same or similar cosmetics as assault rifles.

The trick is a person latches onto the adjective, not the noun, and a rifle is a kind of weapon, so it makes it seem like assault rifles fit under assault weapons, when I'm fact it's the opposite.

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[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 22 points 4 months ago

Why’s the one on top “scarier?”

Because of the type of people more likely to buy the one at the top.

I'm not sure why people like you don't understand that. It's not the gun, it's the sort of people buying it.

And if you are an AR-15 owner and don't like who the gun is associated with, I'm sorry. You don't get to choose how society judges things, whether or not it is fair.

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[-] Ledivin@lemmy.world 18 points 4 months ago

The study only had 3 categories: no firearms, pistol(s), or an AR-15, so you're literally just ranting at bad survey design.

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[-] SOB_Van_Owen@lemm.ee 38 points 4 months ago

Normally pretty much an anarchist in my policy predilections. But there are folks I went to school with that I wouldn't trust with a power drill, much less a rifle. Seems they're just the ones that make the biggest deal over having guns -and least likely to use them in any responsible way. The role these sorts of badass-looking firearms play now is to make powerless Americans feel like they have some agency. Likely dangerous when these misinformed, utterly propagandized serfs feel extra pressed and attribute their low quality of life to all the wrong reasons/people.

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[-] mctoasterson@reddthat.com 24 points 4 months ago

The hilarious part of this is that statistically, many Americans have AR-15s and other rifles sitting somewhere within a few hundred yards of them. There are countless millions of them.

This would be like polling people about their fears surrounding theoretical concealed weapons when, statistically, they just got home from the grocery store or gas station and there were probably 10 people there carrying guns without incident, and they just didn't know about it.

[-] Katana314@lemmy.world 25 points 4 months ago

I may be unaware of the rats living in a small nest inside of a drainspout near me, but that still doesn't mean rats are "okay" or "harmless". So this isn't quite a gotcha about their normality.

[-] justabigemptyhole@lemmy.world 13 points 4 months ago

I have a problem with being compared to vermin for the rifle that sits unloaded in a safe until I take it to the range

[-] Katana314@lemmy.world 17 points 4 months ago

I have a problem with living near a AR-15 owner and rolling the dice about how honestly responsible every member of their household is, but it seems like neither of us is getting a simple solution.

Every parent of every school shooter would also claim to be a responsible gun owner. Who wouldn't?

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[-] MagicShel@programming.dev 21 points 4 months ago

The only righteous abortion is my abortion, and the only safe unsecured AR-15 is my unsecured AR-15.

[-] SnotFlickerman 20 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

I just came here to say I don't understand this because while these guns are by and large used in mass shootings, handgunss cause far more death.

Handguns are less accurate, and are used far less for hunting or other sport (at least compared to rifles), partially due to their sheer inaccuracy. They are way more likely to be used in a murder, and people are way less likely to take the time to lock them up properly because they want them "at hand."

I'm way more likely to be shot by some dumbfuck with a handgun than be caught up in a mass shooting.

Unpopular opinion: ban handguns

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[-] Sam_Bass@lemmy.world 18 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Because there is no actual need for such a weapon. Nobody outside the military needs a spraynpray gun. Yeah they look sexy to some, i get that, but i can do as much "damage" more accurately with my plainjane hunting rifle.

[-] misanthropy@lemm.ee 24 points 4 months ago

How in the world is an AR a spray n pray gun? Barrels shorter than 16" require a tax stamp and approval. An AR can be built to be pretty damn accurate. Do you just not like that it's semi auto?

Idk why people go after the AR platform when you can go buy a Barrett .50 cal anti materiel rifle in 49 states, and there's plenty of less scary shaped semi auto rifles out there.

[-] DdCno1@kbin.social 15 points 4 months ago

They go after this platform, because it's a favorite of mass shooters. You know this.

[-] CancerMancer@sh.itjust.works 15 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Millions of M1 Carbines were widely and affordably available for years before the AR-15 was a thing. It, like the AR-15, is also an easily-handled magazine-fed semi-automatic rifle firing intermediate cartridges, and was intended for military service.

Virtually no school shootings occurred until Columbine (and the media coverage surrounding it, and the miserable state of American society) set off the waves of shootings that continues to this day. It's worth noting they didn't use either AR-15s or M1 Carbines, that didn't become common until later.

If the AR-15 is the cause of this because it is an easily-handled magazine-fed semi-automatic rifle firing intermediate cartridges, how do people explain the near complete lack of mass shootings despite the wide adoption of the M1 Carbine in a time when gun ownership was even less restrictive?

Not a hard enough question? Ok try this one: actual machine guns used to be widely available and much more affordable than they are today. Why is there relatively little recorded violence with them?

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[-] dch82@lemmy.zip 18 points 4 months ago

Being a British person, can they just ban guns already? Gun corporations don’t count as people.

[-] Drusas@kbin.run 19 points 4 months ago

Against the Constitution, so no, they cannot. It would require amending the Constitution first.

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[-] slickgoat@lemmy.world 17 points 4 months ago

The comments couldn't get more American if it was a competition on making American commentary.

I understand both side of the argument, but at the same time I get neither. American cultural identity in relation to firearms is unique in the Western world. Guns have transcended rights and wrongs. People hunt. People use guns recreationally. People cosplay warriors. Some people use guns for bad reasons. Most people never cause the slightest harm. But in any event, culturally, guns occupy a political position not usually seen in the first world.

I'm not even sure what I am trying to say? I do know this, the debate will never end because the two different positions are completely contradictory and all compromise is effectively lost. I'd be interested in hearing a solution that both sides could live with. It would be a doozy.

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[-] RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 15 points 4 months ago

I don’t necessarily care if my neighbor owns an AR rifle. I do care what kind of person they are if they own one, or other firearms.

Are they one of the crowd that treats firearms with the careless disregard of a fashion accessory? Do they have to accessorized it to the utmost tacticool possible? Do they have a private arsenal? Do they leave it lying around in their home or vehicle, or any other firearm for that matter, unsecured? Do they tie guns to their personal or political identity?

All of these things are negatives of varying severity, especially any failure to secure the guns and tying gun to their identity. Why those? Guns get stolen from homes and vehicles all the time and then are used in crimes while the gun owner washes their hands of the consequences of their lazy storage. Unsecured guns are used in accidental shootings by kids or others. And identity tied to firearms is just an indication of inflexibility and possible political extremism.

[-] Ballistic_86@lemmy.world 14 points 4 months ago

Everyone cool with gun rights until you ask if someone they know should have access to guns with little regulation. On the abstract, preserving rights sound good. But when you stop to think of the types of people you know/have met/know about, restricting gun rights feels a bit more logical.

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[-] DreamlandLividity@lemmy.world 12 points 4 months ago

... gun-related incidents, including accidents and mass shootings, have become a leading cause of death in the country.

What? Not even close.

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this post was submitted on 09 May 2024
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