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submitted 6 months ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world

A recent study published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences reveals that across all political and social groups in the United States, there is a strong preference against living near AR-15 rifle owners and neighbors who store guns outside of locked safes. This surprising consensus suggests that when it comes to immediate living environments, Americans’ views on gun control may be less divided than the polarized national debate suggests.

The research was conducted against a backdrop of increasing gun violence and polarization on gun policy in the United States. The United States has over 350 million civilian firearms and gun-related incidents, including accidents and mass shootings, have become a leading cause of death in the country. Despite political divides, the new study aimed to explore whether there’s common ground among Americans in their immediate living environments, focusing on neighborhood preferences related to gun ownership and storage.

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[-] mosiacmango@lemm.ee 40 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Your image is confusing. How does a the rifle with no magazine have the same capacity to rapid fire as the one above it? The Ar-15 appears to have more bullets immediately available, which would mean it would fire them faster.

How is having a pistol grip that improves comfort and hip firing not make the weapon easier and more comfortable to use?

How is being less visible at night not make a black gun more dangerous than one with a bright wooden sheen?

Do both guns have the same exact default trigger pull, or is the ar-15's lighter and easier to fire?

These guns are different enough in actual use to make one more dangerous than the other. They both can kill you dead, but one literally is designed specifically to be deadiler in several ways. It's one of the reasons mass murders keep using it specifically to mas murder people.

Why is it surprising that it's considered deadiler?

[-] Jondar@lemmy.world 25 points 6 months ago

This picture is often used to draw out all the points you've made, to demonstrate that many people are unfamiliar with many firearms. The Mini-14 in this picture is one available configuration of the rifle. The most basic, simple, low capacity version. However, the Mini-14 is fully capable of using 20 and 30 round magazines, a pistol grip, suppressor, bayonet, and even a folding stock (which the AR-15 can't do).

A better version of this picture uses two models of the Mini-14, illustrating how one is legal in California and the other isn't, even though they're functionally the same rifle. A firearm simply being black does not make it more dangerous. A pistol grip does not make it more dangerous or easier to hip fire for that matter. Any gun is easily hip fired, and I would suggest a non pistol grip rifle or shot gun is more ergonomic to fire from the hip as far as pulling the trigger is concerned.

The real argument should be whether semi auto rifles are more dangerous or not, not if specific semi auto rifles are more dangerous.

[-] mosiacmango@lemm.ee 9 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

I asked the question because i honestly dont know the difference, but right off the bat youre saying the image is designed to show one gun in a "action ready" and the other in a "not ready" state. Leaving out the magazine for the second gun is especially misleading when trying to elict a "they are totally the same" reaction.

It's no wonder that people will think one is deadlier than the other shown these exact guns in these conditions, because one literally is from the magazine capacity alone.

[-] Jondar@lemmy.world 3 points 6 months ago

Sorry for not being more clear in my response. There is a magazine in the second one. It is a 5 round magazine (The standard option for this particular model). However, for example, here are the readily available options for the mini 14: https://themagshack.com/product-category/rifle-magazines/ruger-mini-14-magazines/

As I said this picture points out that many people don't know the difference (as you acknowledged you yourself don't know the difference). My point is semi auto rifles as a category of firearm are more deadly. It doesn't matter what semi auto. The mini-14 vs AR-15 argument is used to illustrate the general ignorance many people have about various firearms. The mini-14 is very much as dangerous as an AR-15, but it doesn't get the same attention because it's a gun that can easily look innocuous. The photo used in this post is intentionally disingenuous to highlight this point.

For example, here are the "tactical" models of the Mini-14: https://ruger.com/products/mini14TacticalRifle/models.html

Ruger literally highlights the following benefits to the tactical models: Their short barrels and overall short length make them favorites in any application where maneuverability and ease of handling are priorities.

Many people argue one way or the other while fully acknowledging their own ignorance, and it makes it difficult to find a solution to an issue. As an owner of more than one semi auto rifle, it is frustrating when this particular argument comes up because of how ridiculous it can be. The AR-15 looks scarier, and is therefore deadlier to many people. There are numerous other semi autos that are just as deadly, but don't get demonized because they don't look scary. The AK and SKS are a similar example, though less hyperbolic. The argument to be made is to get rid of semi autos, not demonize particular ones.

[-] SkyezOpen@lemmy.world 19 points 6 months ago

How is being less visible at night not make a black gun more dangerous than one with a bright wooden sheen?

You're right. We should regulate black paint just in case someone decides to turn their legitimate wooden rifle into a war machine.

[-] mosiacmango@lemm.ee 8 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

So you ignored everything i asked about except the color?

Okay.

In aggregate, these differences between the two guns, especially the magazine shown on one gun and not the other, make the weapon more dangerous to others, so it's considered more dangerous to others. Seems pretty simple to me.

[-] SkyezOpen@lemmy.world 7 points 6 months ago

Someone already shit on you about everything else, seemed redundant to pile on.

In aggregate, these changes make the weapon ~~more dangerous to others~~ look scary.

Fixed.

[-] mosiacmango@lemm.ee 3 points 6 months ago

So it's your firm connection that the top gun with a 10 round magazine is equally dangerous as the bottom gun with a 1 round chamber?

Okay then.

[-] SkyezOpen@lemmy.world 4 points 6 months ago

You've already had it explained to you that the mini14 takes magazines. Being overly pedantic doesn't help your case.

[-] pb42184@lemmy.world 2 points 6 months ago

#BlackGunsMatter

[-] IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world 13 points 6 months ago

Agreed, that image is misleading.

[-] Frog-Brawler@kbin.social 13 points 6 months ago

Your image is confusing. How does a the rifle with no magazine have the same capacity to rapid fire as the one above it? The Ar-15 appears to have more bullets immediately available, which would mean it would fire them faster.

The magazine isn't in the second picture but it has one. Looks like a Ruger 5816 to me, so if you want to see what it looks like with the magazine in it, check out their webpage. Funny enough, it looks like a 10 round mag in the AR, and the 5816 comes with a 20.

How is having a pistol grip that improves comfort and hip firing not make the weapon easier and more comfortable to use?

You're talking about personal preferences here. I tend to find them both pretty comfortable, but you really want to keep the stock at your shoulder.

How is being less visible at night not make a black gun more dangerous than one with a bright wooden sheen?

One of them is black metal, the other one is wood. Either could be painted if you wanted to I suppose, but if we're talking about night-time scenarios, using a light would make either relatively visible.

Do both guns have the same exact default trigger pull, or is the ar-15’s lighter and easier to fire?

You could probably answer these questions in less time than it took you to write them out by looking them up. The 5816 has a pull of 13.50" the base model ruger AR (8500) is 10.25" - 13.50".

These guns are different enough in actual use to make one more dangerous than the other. They both can kill you dead, but one literally is designed specifically to be deadiler in several ways. It’s one of the reasons mass murders keep using it specifically to mas murder people.

Clearly this is bullshit.

[-] mosiacmango@lemm.ee 6 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

The image implies these guns have the same capabilities and fire rate, but one has a magazine and the other doesnt.

Given a circumstance where someone is shooting at you with either the top gun with a magazine and the bottom gun with no magazine, which would you prefer they have?

[-] Frog-Brawler@kbin.social 5 points 6 months ago

Yea, I see your point - no magazine at all has a capacity of 1.

[-] BrotherL0v3@lemmy.world 1 points 6 months ago

These guns are different enough in actual use to make one more dangerous than the other. They both can kill you dead, but one literally is designed specifically to be deadiler in several ways. It's one of the reasons mass murders keep using it specifically to mas murder people.

Others have already explained how they're both equally lethal, but to your point about mass murderers using the one over the other: The top rifle can be had for ~$400 & looks like the one all the soldiers and video game guys use. The bottom is closer to $1000 and does not look as cool (to the young adult male demographic that commits most mass shootings, at least). I would argue those two factors account more for their difference in mass shooting use than anything else.

this post was submitted on 09 May 2024
639 points (100.0% liked)

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