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‘Sovereign citizen’ shot, killed during exchange with Harris County deputies (www.houstonpublicmedia.org)

submitted 4 months ago by BonesOfTheMoon@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world

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[-] partial_accumen@lemmy.world 132 points 4 months ago

A man was shot and killed while exchanging gunfire with Harris County Sheriff’s Office deputies following a traffic stop in north Houston Sunday.

He wasn't shot because he was a Sovcit idiot, he was shot because he was shooting at police. Why even mention he was a Sovcit idiot? It doesn't change the story at all.

The site might as well have: "Man with blue pants shot, killed during exchange with Harris County deputies"

[-] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 37 points 4 months ago

Why did he open fire on the cops?

Meth? Personal grudge? Former cop whistleblower fighting for his life? Just hates cops and shoots at people all the time? Suicidal? It’s part of the Who What Where Why When formula.

It’s a valid question, and valid to include in the story and, yes, in the headline.

[-] Arbiter@lemmy.world 8 points 4 months ago

The article says he may have had felony warrants.

[-] bobs_monkey@lemm.ee 8 points 4 months ago

Probably not the first time this yoyo thought laws don't apply to him. Special little snowflake, that one.

[-] jordanlund@lemmy.world 22 points 4 months ago

The fact that he was a SovCit idiot prompted him to shoot at the cops. It's relevant background.

[-] CaptainSpaceman@lemmy.world 7 points 4 months ago

Except they dont say "gunfire exchange" so the headline def means to slant towards sovcit being the victim

[-] jordanlund@lemmy.world 6 points 4 months ago

You have to read more than the headline:

"After stepping out of his vehicle, the man, armed with a pistol, began shooting at deputies. They exchanged gunfire and the man was shot dead. No deputies were injured during the exchange, Gonzalez said."

[-] CaptainSpaceman@lemmy.world 5 points 4 months ago

Im just commenting on the clickbait and slanted headline and its intended effects.

I did read the article and thats how I came to see the slant, and why I chose to comment on it.

[-] kent_eh@lemmy.ca 2 points 4 months ago

the headline def means to slant towards sovcit being the victim

Or lazily slanting towards "ACAB".

[-] Fedizen@lemmy.world 105 points 4 months ago

woman bystander shot... They can't fucking just shoot each other and leave everyone else out of it.

[-] FilterItOut@thelemmy.club 55 points 4 months ago

Hopefully it brings consequences. Every time a bullet is fired, it is required (and I guess that must be in quotes for police officers...) that you be responsible for that bullet's consequences. If you shoot at a legitimate threat, but hit the bystander, you should get charged. Cop, not-cop, firefighter, good samaritan with a gun, whatever. Charge them.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 30 points 4 months ago

Hopefully it brings consequences.

I'm sure it will. The cops will be put on paid leave and then given medals. Something like that. That's what usually happens when cops kill innocent people.

[-] halcyoncmdr@lemmy.world 16 points 4 months ago

In many jurisdictions if anyone is hurt related to a crime, the criminal is legally responsible for all damages.

So for a situation like this, the criminal would be responsible for all damages stemming from their initial crime when they chose to run. Any damage in the chase or subsequent actions until they are killed or in custody.

[-] Cethin@lemmy.zip 16 points 4 months ago

Yes, and that should be the case. However, cops (and everyone for that matter) should be responsible for every shot they fire. They should make sure their background is clear. If some freak accident happens, like a ricochet that shouldn't be expected, then it should be fine, but they should have to make an attempt to be safe with firearms. You know a civilian would have to.

[-] jkrtn@lemmy.ml 1 points 4 months ago

IDK if it should be the case, because that shit is getting abused to jail people who shouldn't be jailed.

[-] Cethin@lemmy.zip 1 points 4 months ago

I haven't really heard of that being abused. They have easier ways to do that. I wouldn't be surprised if it's abused, but if you start a car chase you should be responsible for what happens with it, for example. I guess I can see the potential for abuse, but also I think it's necessary to have.

[-] ShaggySnacks@lemmy.myserv.one 4 points 4 months ago

It's called "Felony Murder".

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/12/18/felony-murder-laws

[-] jkrtn@lemmy.ml 10 points 4 months ago

It is more likely that she be arrested for obstruction because she intercepted the bullet.

[-] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago

The only thing that will stop a bad sovereign citizen with a gun is a good sovereign citizen with a gun.

A pity that there are no sovereign citizens that should ever be trusted with anything as dangerous as a pair of arts and crafts scissors for kindergarteners

[-] blahsay@lemmy.world 69 points 4 months ago

I don't know what his last words were but I know they were something stupid. Maybe:

'You can't shoot me, I have a form!'

[-] Olhonestjim@lemmy.world 37 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

"I'm the entity, not the individual! People can die, but ideas live forev

[-] Fedizen@lemmy.world 29 points 4 months ago

sovereign citizens be handing a judge the "get out of jail free" monopoly card and thinking "this is real"

[-] Blackmist@feddit.uk 22 points 4 months ago

I DO NOT UNDERSTAND YOUR INTENT!

[-] YtA4QCam2A9j7EfTgHrH@infosec.pub 60 points 4 months ago

Sovcit learned why states have power over us.

[-] interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml 12 points 4 months ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

[removed by mod]

[-] BakerBagel@midwest.social 83 points 4 months ago

SovCits are just selfish assholes that want all the benefits of living in society without any of the obligations. They want to use roads, have nice things, relax, and have plenty of food, but they don't want to pay for them or contribute to their upkeep. That's why they are always trying to worm out of oaying child support, not pay for traffic violations, get out of their sewer bills, and other anti-social behavior.

[-] DragonTypeWyvern@literature.cafe 18 points 4 months ago

If bro was living on a commune and he forgot what happens when you call them murder pigs to their face it'd be one thing, but something tells me he got mad because his stupid plate he bought on the Internet got him pulled over.

[-] halcyoncmdr@lemmy.world 22 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

The article mentions he had 2 felony warrants.

Felony warrants don't just appear out of nowhere.

[-] Car@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 4 months ago

‘Sovereign citizen’ shot, killed during exchange with Harris County deputies | Houston Public Media

Classic misunderstanding. The corporation in his name has two felony warrants. This individual is simply being prosecuted by mistake and without consent. I'm sure he mailed the forms in triplicate with the horizontal red ink to confirm.

[-] jkrtn@lemmy.ml 3 points 4 months ago

Are those continental warrants, or were they issued from a maritime courtroom? (You can tell by the fringe on the flag in the courtroom.)

[-] interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

[removed by mod]

[-] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 1 points 4 months ago

No, it does not sound like that. Not at all.

The clothing I am wearing I am confident was made by children in Asia. I would really rather this not be the case. I can't afford clothing not made in sweatshops. I can be very much against sweatshops and at the same time not have a way around them. This is not the same as refusing to pay child support or a speeding ticket.

[-] BlitzoTheOisSilent@lemmy.world 1 points 4 months ago

This sounds like "if you don't like capitalism, why do you have a cell phone and BUY food ?"

Well, why do they? The cell phone uses private and public infrastructure to be transported and operated, which they don't contribute to, and these sovcits are gung-ho on private rights and all that, so why should a private company like Verizon have to allow them to use their wireless or internet networks?

And unless they walk across the air to get to the store to buy food, all of that was transported via public infrastructure (roads, trains, ships, etc), of which they would also need to utilize to get their food. Again, none of which they want to contribute to.

Some people it seems would orefer if there were nine if that. That it is an intolerable imposition on them to be forced to support all that with no real say in the matter and no possibility of escape.

No one is stopping them from checking out of society and living in the woods or whatever. Again, you don't get the benefits of the social contract and then decide you're special and none of the obligations are applicable to you, personally.

Life's not fair and it sucks, get over it.

I feel it boils down to "if you don't like it, go live on Mars"

No, again, they're welcome to live in the woods or wherever. There's no magic combination of words or make believe forms that gets you out of taxes or alimony or to get a house for free or whatever other nonsense these sovcits are coming up with.

It's pure entitlement on their part, that they're somehow more specialer than the rest of humanity who also didn't choose to be here and also had no say in the capitalist hellscape we all get to live in.

[-] tacosanonymous@lemm.ee 40 points 4 months ago

Does that make this an intranational incident?

[-] Ultragigagigantic@lemmy.world 32 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

He probably should have stayed in his own country

[-] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 22 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Our deputies are not required to allow anyone to violate the laws.

Wut?

It also doesn't mention anywhere who's shot hit the woman in the summary blurb. Was it the cops or the dude who began shooting at the cops that was shot dead?

[-] cbarrick@lemmy.world 21 points 4 months ago

Our deputies are not required to allow anyone to violate the laws.

Wut?

It's a response to the "sovereign citizen" thing. Sovcits believe that the law does not apply to them.

[-] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 11 points 4 months ago

It reads like they are not required to stop someone violating the law. They can if they want, but they could also just let the crime happen.

[-] meco03211@lemmy.world 6 points 4 months ago

And they can. It's sometimes framed as prosecutorial discretion. It's the reason why if you're driving with the "flow" of traffic that is speeding, you can get pulled over and no one else. They aren't legally required to pull over any of them, let alone the "first" offender.

[-] Nastybutler@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago

They aren't. And often don't. If they stopped everyone who violated a traffic law they'd have to invest too much time and effort for little effect. That's why there's usually a threshold most of us know we can get away with speeding a certain amount. Cops have to use their discretion on which offenses to persue and which to ignore

[-] Quetzlcoatl@sh.itjust.works 19 points 4 months ago

Passive language, "was struck"= the cop shot her

[-] Hawke@lemmy.world 16 points 4 months ago

Since it doesn’t mention it I’ll assume it was the cops.

[-] ricecake@sh.itjust.works 4 points 4 months ago

It's quite possible they don't know who shot the bystander and won't until after some investigation. Not a huge amount, but just reviewing any footage, seeing where people were when they were shooting and shot, probably looking at the bullets.

The first bit is because sovereign citizens believe they can opt out of the law, and police will have to let them violate the law with impunity.

[-] jeffw@lemmy.world 1 points 4 months ago

Probably don’t know yet

[-] bradorsomething@ttrpg.network 18 points 4 months ago

When you hear Harris County shot a white man, you know they tried all other options first.

this post was submitted on 21 Apr 2024

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